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NTSB removes union from Metro-North investigation, train service restored
The conductor???
The conductor???
The union should never be allowed into an investigation. They have little too nothing to offer. Their agenda is to muddy the water to absolve their member of any wrong doing. Let the professionals do their job.
Oh, and another person in the cab would not have helped. History has shown many other wrecks with two or three people in the cab, and the train still wrecked. Like the Amtrak that rear ended a NS train in 2008 near Chicago. Three employees in the cab.
Jim Norton,
We have a responsibilty to keep you from ever seeing into the cab of Electric MU commuter trains, MU-ed light rail trains everywhere from Boston to the Left Coast from Seattle to the Tijuana City limit, and horror times 2, the Vancouver B.C. peoplemover, BART, even Amtrak runs of less than, what is it? 4 or 6 hours. Push-pulls almost everywhere, the good ol’ RDC’s, remote control yard engines, DPU units…
The shock you’d sense when you discovered that in those cabs the crew consisted of…
Might be a cranial TNT detonation.
Probably.
Did you say “a second man needs…in the cab?”
In the '70’s, SP Oakland could have crewed a train’s engine with two women, engineer and fireman.
That griever, union local chairman…being represented by him would be like having for your lawyer in a death penalty trial…like having an executioner who worked on commission defending you.
First off, I’m sorry that Mike is offended by “non-railroaders” posting; he has, I believe, no way of knowing whether the various posters are, or are not, railroaders.
That said, I quite agree that this was most likely simply a horrible accident.
However, it is the job of the NTSB to find out why the accident happened, a very difficult task and one which they do very well indeed – but it will take some time. The idea is to not only discover the proximate cause – and it seems clear enough that the speed may have been excessive – but also the chain of events and actions which led up to the proximate cause. An accident is never – never – the result of one single factor! The objective of the whole exercise is to find the links in the chain and identify what, if anything, can be done to reduce the likelihood of their happening again.
This must be done completely impartially. If you read an NTSB report, one of the first things you note is a disclaimer stating that the report may not be used in any litigation. It is regrettable that the union representing the train crew will not be represented during the investigation, as their expertise could have been helpful – but discussing the details and findings of an investigation in public, without the concurrence of the investigating group, is not helpful to anyone, which is why it is prohibited.
Who put Mike Price in charge of censorship proceedings? He needs to learn the concept of free speech in the First Amendment. Nobody is forcing him to read what others post. Or are they?
When you have this much mass, speed and responsibility a second man needs to be in the cab.
The conductor? What did he do wrong? – or do you mean the engineer at the throttle?
“Publically”? Ms. Hersman needs to crack a dictionary once in a while.
All you none railroaders need to shut the hell up about this. It was an accident. Nothing intentional just a horrible accident. Why trains let you idiots post your CRAP is beyond me. God bless those affected by this .
Good point Mike Price. I totally agree.
I hope the conductor goes to hell for what he did.
Until a PTC (Positive Train Control) system can be installed and implemented, a version of a “vigilance” control could be installed. Basically a button with a timer that the engineer at the controls must press to reset the system timer before it reaches “0”. If the button is not pushed the train is automatically brought to a safe stop and the crew must follow a set procedure to release the brakes and proceed. The timer could be set to two minutes or less.
Australian railroads used them in the outback where there were long stretches of straight level track. I believe the systems in the UK also use a version of this system. It would be a bother for the engineer, but better than having something like this to live with.
The railroads are pushing for an extension of the PTC installation deadline, in part because to lack of funding from congress. It is true that the PTC system is expensive, but how does that cost compare to the to the cost of litigation from victims and their families over the years to come.
William Roth-
You are talking about “alerters” which all the freight roads use. I don’t know for sure if MN has them or not, although I suspect they do. The problem with them is you get used to hitting the reset button when the alarm starts and it’s been shown you can reset them without ever becoming fully awake.
We have a concept in this country called free speech. It is a right. With rights comes the concept of act responsibly.
Actually, I believe that the conductor does have some responsibility here. Maybe NORAC rules are different, but GCOR rule 1.47 says that the conductor supervises the operation of the train, and, additionally, that ALL crew members must act responsibly to ensure that the train is operated safely, including using the emergency brake valve to stop the train, if necessary.
So, we have a conductor and three AC’s on board. None of them noticed that the train wasn’t slowing down? The passenger load didn’t seem to be so heavy that they were totally occupied with the passengers. Obviously, I wasn’t there, but it seems to me that one of them should have at least said something to the engineer by radio about the speed. Or, dumped the air.
The NTSB spokesman sounds like he knows almost NOTHING when he makes his reports to the media. They need to get someone who can project knowledge of the railroad industry and their operations, instead of confusion!!!
Jim baker you are on it with your take. But remember the conductor in a passenger train setting is back with the passengers not with the engineer as in all freight trains. But i would hope they would notice they were going 82mph but probably had no idea where they were and that would make it tough .
One last rant! Does jeff gues work for a railroad? 1000% says no. Your thoughts jeffery?