NYC Dreyfuss 221

Classic Toy Trains Forum
1

Hello folks! I’m a novice here. I just got my Dad’s old NYC Dreyfuss 221 repaired and it now runs. But I have a couple questions (that are probably simplistic but I’d appreciate some direction):

  1. What does the lever/switch on the top of the engine do? I’ve flipped it back and forth and it doesn’t seem to do anything.

  2. When I press the reverse button on the transformer, the engine stops. When I release the button, the train just continues moving forward.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks! Jim

2

Jim did you try running it with the lever in either direction? Because I think it might activate the reverser, so that in one position it will reverse when you pu***he button.

3

Jim, the lever sticking out of the top of the boiler is part of the “E-unit”, a component which is intended to cycle the loco sequentially through forward-neutral-reverse operation. Pressing the reverse button stops power from the transformer and starts the E-unit to its next step. Releasing the button restores power and completes the E-unit cycle step.

Here’s a link to info on servicing the 221:
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=40
and here’s a link to info on how E-units work:
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=615

The info is just for orientation - I’m not suggesting you have to learn the details or service the loco yourself!

The loco should stop when the reverse button is pressed. If the E-unit does not cycle after the button is released, either the E-unit lever is “Off” or the E-unit is not operating properly. E-unit repair parts are easily obtained, even for locos as old as your 221 (1946-47).

4

Chris and Mike,

Thanks for the info. I’ve tried it with the lever on both sides and in the middle. Same reaction - when I press reverse button, loco stops; when I release button, it resumes moving forward.

I guess that means the E-unit is not working. Chris, is there anyway to test this?

Thanks!

5

Jim, I suspect you already have!

Can you see the E-unit when you look into the cab (where the engineer would sit)? If so, you should be able to see the rest of the L-shaped lever. The bottom right of the lever has a dimple, or contact point. When the E-unit lever is moved to the “on” position, the dimple makes contact with a grommet in the fiberboard. There’s a wire connected to the other side of the grommet that completes the circuit to ground. If you can verify that the lever is in the “on” position but the loco still doesn’t reverse, there’s a problem with the E-unit.

I consider E-unit repair to be a “mid-level” service procedure - not as hard as replacing wheels, but more complicated than cleaning and lubrication. The ability to solder probably will be required. It turns out the hardest part is keeping all the parts in place when you press the two sides back together. Considering that the original E-unit would be about 60 years old, I’d replace the drum and both contact assemblies, and strongly consider replacing the coil, too.

What’s surprising is that you indicated you had your 221 repaired. I would have expected E-unit servicing to be part of that repair.

6

Whereas the e-unit itself is an ingenious three-position device, the e-unit lever is a simple on-off switch. Any position that is not “on” is “off.”

You should be able to feel the “on” position by moving the lever slowly and gently from one side to the other. It should move smoothly until it’s “nub” encounters the resistance of the slightly raised side of the dimple (more like a very shallow volcano) which it must “climb” against light spring tension – then it will drop into the dimple and tend to stay there. (The “on” position is usually at or very close to all the way over in the correct direction, but sometimes the lever can actually be pushed past the dimple which, if it happens, is “off” once again. ) The lever should not drag against the edge of the slot in the boiler.

If you can find the “on” position, it should work. If not, the problem is with the e-unit itself. The most likely cause is that the drum is not rotating. This in turn could be caused by several things, some electrical, some mechanical.

It is possible, that everything worked during the service procedure, but that something got pinched during re-assembly and is impeding the action of the drum, the pawl, or the solenoid.

Frankly, I would take it back to the guy who repaired it, because servicing e-units is, as suggested above, not a project for a novice.

In addition to the links provided above, you may gain some insight by going to the link below. I understand that the e-unit in your 221 is similar (although not identical) to the one pictured on the fifth page down at this site. You should be able to get an idea of how the e-unit lever (switch) makes contact.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=101

7

Thanks to all!!

Chris, when I look in the back (where the engineer compartment is), there is a soid metal plate. So, you cannot see/access the E-unit there.

I will call the guy who repaired it and check with him.

Any other tips, let me know. This is cool stuff.

Thanks again! Jim

8

Hello,

I have a 1947 NYC 221 (the black version) that was in a flooded basemnt. The loco was nose down with the rear of the loco resting on the tender, so the bottom of the tender up to the motor for the whistle is ruined. The 221’s running gear was rusted in place, and the E-unit was a hopeless wreck.

The loco was completely disassembled. The sheel was completely stripped, and all rust removed. The shell has been given a few coats of automotive grade primer.

The wheels have been cleaned, and all rust removed with a dremel with a wire wheel. As far as the motor section is concerned, there was some light rust, but the E-Unit and the portion of the frame seemed to take the brunt of the rust. The E-unit was removed, and the rust surrounding it removed. The motor was wired to run without the reverse unit, and it ran perfectly. (Well, jerkily until it was oiled.) I bought the E-unit (100-25) for it at a train show, or so I thought. the E-unit ended up being a 100-8 type in a 100-25 package.

Oh well, the 100-8 fit another loco needing a reverse unit.

I will be going to a TCA meet next sunday, so I will get my E-unit there.

About the tender, it will need a lot of TLC (Time, Liquor, and Cursing) the wheels are completely rusted up. The trucks will not even pivot. The whistle motor is one big hunk of rust, not too much different from a dodge neon.

I hope that telling the story of my 221 restoration has helped some.

9

[(-D] TLC - Good one!

Restoration and repair of old trains has become one of my favorite parts of this hobby. It’s great to see and hear about old, damaged toy trains brought back to looking and running like new.

Jim

10

He does a great job of restoring them.

11

now thats one I’d like to find. !

12

Once I get the new E-unit for my 221 Dreyfuss I will try to post pictures of “before” and after". When I got the loco, I took several photos to document the initial condition.

I am trying to find out how much it would cost to get a small website chock full of photos of my restoration and repair jobs, from my first project (A Marx 490 that had a busted running board that, after repairs, was painted Teal with 5 coats of clear coat.) to a Flyer 300AC, to a couple of prewar cars that needed a new lease on life (and a lot of rust removed) to a Marx 666 (missing a wheel and heavily corroded) to the 221.

I have documented my repair work rather well, with some before photos (a lot of the 221) and after photos. Heck with the Marx 490, I brought it with me to the flea market where I paid $5 for it (a freind of mine ran a train booth at the flea market in Summerville, SC) and someone offered $250 for it.

My Chessie cat (a 35 lb. Bengal) stepped in (literally) to stop the would be buyer from considering it further.

I am not sure why I bought the 221 in the first place. I remember looking at the loco because of it’s unique shell. I remember my wife protested me getting the engine, as she claimed it was a rusted peice of garbage. I told her that the loco hd something about it that called out to me.

Needless to say, I won, and got the loco.

My wife has seen the many hours I have put into the restoration and has realized how much the loco and it’s restoration means to me.

Typical woman - does not understand basic electrical or mechanical, so she doesn’t like 'em.

But, at least I have kindled a love of trains in her, just not the really rusty broken down toy ones.

Go figure, her favourite RR is (wait for it…) the Chessie System.

13

Hey, Sailor…

The 221 is a unique looking locomotive. Very streamlined.

There are plenty of free photo hosting sites on the web. Photobucket is one that comes to mind.

I’d love to see some of those before and after photos of your trains. A detailed account of how you fix them up would be greatly appreciated. Keep us posted!

Jim

14

Here’s a 100% original 221.

I’ll never understand why folks would ever repaint a post war train. There is a certain amount of irreplacable character in these trains that disappears with repainting. I know some folks go so far as to repaint freight cars to different roadnames.

Everyone of those wings and dings is a story that gets erased for ever.

15

I’ll never understand why folks would ever repaint a post war train. There is a certain amount of irreplacable character in these trains that disappears with repainting. I know some folks go so far as to repaint freight cars to different roadnames.

Everyone of those wings and dings is a story that gets erased for ever.

and that’s why I’m on my kneesat the shows scrounging the junk boxes. I imigane the delight on the childs face Christmas morning, then wondering what fun they had making all the scars.

I missed a pretty decent one at the last show for $75. black w/ nickel rims. I didn’t have enough $ after buying othr goodies.

16

I only repaint rolling stock that has been damaged severly, like my 221. It could not run, and was so badly rusted that it could not function.

I advocate repainting only to salvage and repair, not just because someone wants the car in a different road name.

17

I feel the same way. There is certainly a difference between a well patina-ed post war piece and a rusted together, junk box piece. It sounds to me like you brought a loco and tender back to life that was destined for the landfill.

You only have to please yourself as far as your trains go. Paint them or leave them scratched and dinged. If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t doing it right.

Jim

18

While on the subject, I’ve got two 221’s that have been very poorly hand repainted and are in need of of stripping and repainting proper. I’ m assuming Krylon semi-flat for a black one, but can anybody reccomend paint for a gunmetal one?

19

Olsen’s sells a NYC gray enamel paint for 221 locomotives. You can get it in 2 oz. jars or 12 oz spray.

Olsen’s Link

Charles C. Wood also sells the paint.

TrainEnamel.com

Ask to be sure you are getting the correct gray.

Jim

20

One great engine.