I know the PRR bought ABA sets, who knows what the New York Central bought? Thanks Mike
Online roster shows about 30 A units and 15 B units. I guess that means ABA sets. Anyone to corroborate this? Mike
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F7
They kind of go together.
I have PCM, HO F3 A 1607 and B 2407. BLI F7 A 1636 and B 2420. All freight haulers for my Pacemaker freight series.
Rich
NYC was an early buyer of FTs which originally came only in A-B drawbar-connected sets. This meant you could only run 2 or 4 units together, and many railroads found three would be “just right” for the typical power they needed. So, after WW2 many railroads bought F2 and/or F3 A units to allow them to run F units in an A-B-A sets when they wanted to. That could be at least part of the reason that NYC, like many railroads, had more A units than B units on the roster. From what I’ve seen two unit A-A sets and A-B sets running on a train seemed pretty common into the early sixties on the NYC though. IIRC after the FTs all NYC F B-units had couplers at both ends rather than drawbars, so could be “mixed and matched” into various engine consists as needed. It may just be they preferred A units. It would be interesting to know how many NYC B-units had steam generators and were primarily passenger engines…
My best advice would be to study photos of them in service in the time period you model. However, by the late 50’s it didn’t matter anymore as many were mixed together with other units. The all color Morning Sun books are a good reference and you may find them at the library or get them interlibrary loan. There were some specific passenger F-3’s on the NYC: 3500-3503, A units and 3600-3601, B units, though they were eventually relagated to freight service. This indicates that these passenger units were delieved as two ABA sets.
I have seen photos of the NYC F-3’sand F-7’s in AA, AB and ABA sets in new condition so if you want to model as delivered for a particular consist, again study photos. I hope this helps. I purchased an AB set of Genesis NYC F-3’s as delivered and MU’d them to a GP-7 with the geep on the end of the consist with the B unit in the middle.
That would be ignoring, for example, GN’s purchase of six sets of ABA FT’s (300-305), and the Santa Fe non-drawbar connected FT “sets”.
Ed
It is an interesting question that the OP asks, and I cannot answer his specific question. But, I do agree with the response by wabash2800 that if prototypical operation and appearance is important to the modeler, then it would be best to study photos of them in service during the time period being modeled. In the case of NYC, if I were modeling the prototype, I would also consult with the New York Central Railroad Historical Society to get the best advice:
Rich
Thanks Ed, and just mentioning all 320 Santa Fe FTs were delivered with couplers and plus many late production FTs that were delivered with couplers. Gosh someone should write a book that has the true facts in it. Calling Preston Cook . . .
Another Ed
Sandusky: I went to A J Kristopans GM Serial Number Page and found three orders for New York Central F3s. EMD order E752 shows 18 F3As and 10 F3Bs built in June and July of 1947. The road numbers would be 1606-1623 for the F3As and 2404-2413 for the F3Bs. EMD order E772 shows 4 F3As and 2 F3Bs built in July 1947. These were the passenger F3s and were numbered 4211-4214 for the F3As and 3600-3601 for the two F3Bs. EMD order E841 was for 12 F3As and 6 F3Bs built in April 1948. Road numbers were 1624-1635 for the F3As and 2414-2419 for the F3Bs. In summary there were 34 A unit and 18 B units for the New York Central F3s.
Ed
Ed:
Unless that is a typo on your part, the numbers for the F-3A passenger versions on the website are incorrect. They were in the 3500 series. The diesel book put out by the NYCSHS and photos show them in the 3500 series.
Thanks, I see what I did. EMD serial numbers 4211-4214 are NYC F3As 3500-3503.
since I am a Pennsy modeler I have always viiewed NYC as the enemy. That being said it was the water levell route and would have required less hp per ton then the PRR that took the direct route over the mountains. So to my thinking some research into NYC tonnage or number of cars per train will reveal the power requirements.
I looked into this a bit more and based on good sources they were delivered in AA, AB and ABA sets. The ABA sets were initially intended for use on the sections of the railroad with steeper grades. The NYC was a big railroad streching from the East Coast to East St. Louis, as far south as West Virginia and even Kentucky and into northern Michigan and southern Canada. And it did haul much coal including from Pennsylvania. There were a number of locations especially on north-south lines that required pushers even in the late steam era. The Water Level Route was just a part of the system. And incidentally, the Water Level Route did have a pusher grade near Albany, New York.
EMC/GM originally designed the FT to only be available in A-B sets with a drawbar…essentially two engines in one, like a Mallet. In fact, if you separated the A and B units, there wasn’t even a door you could close to keep the weather out of the units at the ends the drawbar end! You could however do an A-A set if you wanted to, however it would have to be “freight only” as there was no space in the A units for a steam boiler.
The FT 103 demonstrator set that toured the country in the winter of 1939-40 was made up of two A-B sets, often running back to back in A-B-B-A configuration, but sometimes running separately.
After many railroads were able to test FT 103, they made some requests for changes when ordering units. ATSF wanted couplers on both ends of the engines, and GM was able to jerry-rig couplers for the Santa Fe engines. Some railroads wanted to run three unit sets, so EMD came up with the FTSB (FT Short Booster) which had no room for a steam generator like the normal FT B units, but symmetrical (unlike other FT B units, which had an overhang at the coupler end) so you could connect them together with drawbars in A-B-A fashion.
After WW2, several railroads ordered F2 or F3 A units to go with their FT A-B sets, to make three unit A-B-A sets.
See “The Revolutionary Diesel: EMC’s FT” book by Diesel Era; there are a couple of good books out there on F unit history too.