I am modeling the TH&B in the late 50’s to early 60’s, including the stretch from Waterford ON to Welland ON on the NYC, and I need a little information on NYC paint schemes. Can someone advise when the locomotive scheme changed from cigar band to lightening, or vice-versa? Not sure which came first. Also, in what year was the jade green introduced for box cars and cabooses? Thanks very much.
RichardGS
I’m not sure when the change occurred, but the lightning stripes preceded the cigar band scheme.
Wayne
Richard,
First off: [#welcome] to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]
The NYC lightning stripe came first. The Cigar band came later on, I think late 50s? The jade green would have come out in the early 50s. (Maybe '52 or '53)
When the NYC FT diesels were first introduced in June '41, they were painted with the unique “Cat Whisker” design:
Click picture(s) to enlarge
These were only on a handful of units. The F3s (and later F-units), as well as the E-units, were all painted with the more traditional NYC “lightning stripe” scheme:
You can find pictures of these on the Fallen Flag web site.
Hope that helps…
Tom
Hello Wayne,
Was theTH&B a freight road dr did it run passenger trains?
Malcolm
The TH&B ran both freight & passenger as it was jointly owned by the CPR & NYC.
The TH&B was a bridge line between the two.
Gordon
The TH&B ran both freight and passenger. Here’s a short excerpt from the Ontarian, the publication of the TH&B Historical Society.
Although the TH&B eventually became an all-freight line, much of the railway’s early business was oriented directly towards providing passenger services.For example, in 1913, over 700,000 passengers rode TH&B trains. In that year, there were six through trains from Toronto to Buffalo every day. Passenger service peaked during World War Two, and after a brief period of profitability during the late 1940s and early 1950s, the railway’s passenger services gradually ebbed. The final conventional passenger trains ran on October 24, 1970. CP Rail RDCs took over the remaining passenger routes. In 1981, VIA Rail finally ended all passenger service over TH&B lines.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne, re the NYC, I wonder if anyone can get any closer with the dates of the change from Lightning Stripe to Cigar band livery, and the introduction of the Jade green freight cars & cabooses. A couple of people have told me they thought the 60’s for the latter, and so I am still not confident to run them on my 58 - 59 timeframe. Thanks, RichardGS
Richard,
I have the information you seek from several books on the NYC in my library. I am a NYC fan, and model the NYC in Ohio. I have a few TH&B cars as well as some CASO cars in my fleet. There is not an easy answer, as when the NYC merged with Pennsy they still had all the afformentioned paint jobs, except the original LS scheme, which someone provided a link to. Various classes of locomotives had different years of conversion to the Cigar Band Herald, and the rolling stock also had various schemes and dates of conversion as well. Feel free to E Mail me and I will provide you with the info you need.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
A fictional subsidary of the NYC in Ohio.
Richard,
I sent you an E mail last night about 2am. I had some trouble getting it out. Did ya get it?
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
I think you meant early sixties, not fifties. The jade green with large herald on freight cars wasn’t around until around 1960-62. [:)]
Thanks Stix, that is consistant with comments from others on the jade green. Think I am going to have to bring my layout date forward a few years!
RichardGS
Changeover to the cigar band scheme seems to have happened around 1960. I haven’t seen any F unit photos with that scheme before then. However, I’ve seen photos of lightning-striped Fs as late as '64. You didn’t ask, but some NYC engines got even simpler schemes before the 1968 Penn Central merger.