I’m getting back into model railroading now that I have plenty of space. I’m basically inheriting all of my dad’s O-27 Gauge trains and was curious about a few things since I haven’t been in the train scene since I was a young teen.
Is O-27 still a good way to go? Should I just go to O and abandon O-27 or run in a mixed mode of O-27 and O? Is that even possible? I have tons of 3 rail steel lionel O-27 track so any where I can reuse will save me big bucks.
I realize there a diameter issues with O gauge engines running on O-27 track but from what I see online and in stores it’s mainly O Standard. Are most O compatible with O-27? What am I missing.
Any insight is appreciated, I posted a similar topic in the model railroad forum and they said the O-Gauge-Gurus reside in this forum so I apologize if this is a repeat topic for some.
Joe - the O-27 will limit you on the type of, and length, of equipment you can run. Many of today’s engines are designed for a min. of O-31. The problem I’ve run into when I used O-27 track was with the overhang, or some other part, hitting the housing for the switches. Also with the sharper curve longer cars may tend to derail and also longer trains may derail.
A possible way around the derailing may be to insert a 1/2, or whole, straight section between curved sections, this will “open up” the curve.
As far a mixing rolling stock you can be selective and see what looks good together, after all real trains are a mix of different size cars. I usually will taper down, or up, from large to small or small to large.
I’m sure others will have more input for you after they come on board later today.
The only reason not to go with the 0-27 would be that the tracks are not as realistic as realtracks or something. As far as I know you can get 31 and 42 curves for it too, which will allow you almost every train to run. There are some big models which ask for wider curves, but those are mostly the very expensive models.
To start with, it should be more then sufficient. (my 2 cents…)
PERSONAL I like 027 track but then again my whole layout is made of it. (click on the web icon below to see it.)
The good thing about 027 it there is plenty of it on the used market at a very reasonable price. The only thing I don’t like and don’t use is the Lionel 027 switches. I like the newer K-Line low profile type. This will allow much larger engines - cars to pass thru them. So if you don’t mind the overhang, there isn’t anything wrong with 027 IMHO.
[#welcome]
Even new 027 track is reasonably priced compared to “O”.
That’s what I plan to use on the very short term “Halloween” layout. I’ve got some old track and if I can’t clean it up enuff I’ll go with new. All this work for one night. [D)] But it should be fun to watch the little ones. [^]
I’m not aware of any O31-diameter curves made in the O27 profile, although you can get O34, O42, O54, and O72 curves. O27 rail and ties are more realistic than O31 (which, however, is not saying much). It is common to insert extra ties to fill in the gaps. I like popsicle sticks for this. They are a little narrower than the metal ties, but not enough to be obviously different. Modern O27 ties have the same curved edge as O31, which is easy to cover up with ballast. Some folks paint the center rail black (except for a thin stripe along the top) to hide it.
The O34 track was made by Marx but is not hard to find. Marx also made some very good switches, in both O27 and O34, with low switch machines. These can be improved for non-Marx trains by disabling the spring frogs and adding guard rails.
Wow, thanks for the replies. Seems like a cool community and I’m looking forward to posting more as I go through my trials and tribulations of setting up my layout.
I never realized about the switches, that’s a good thing to know. I think I’m going to look into getting wider diameter curved pieces that way I can get rolling stock that won’t derail on me.
I find it funny that HO is HO and N is N but O has these variations, you would think they would want to standardize to make it easier for people to plug and play.
O is a much older gauge than those others, which may explain some of the diversity. There are even more variations if you consider the scale modelers.
However, even the next younger scale, HO, has several variants around the world. The British make their HO-gauge trains to a scale of 1/76 rather than 1/87 (and call the result “OO”). The Germans run on 3-rail HO track, using AC rather than the DC that is usual in HO, and make their center rail out of individual studs (“pukos”).
And just about every scale and gauge uses a variety of couplers, not unlike the prototypes.
Three-rail O gauge is about as easy as it gets in model railroading, so I’m not sure how they could make it any more “plug and play” friendly.
Two-rail O scale, and all of the other two-rail model railroading scales and gauges, involve a little more effort, but certainly not anything that a person of even average intelligence can’t learn and quickly apply.
Within three-rail O gauge there are plenty of options to choose from. Smaller O27 stuff for those who have limited space or who just like the somewhat smaller items (I’m in that category), and scale-size models for those with deeper pockets, a propensity for more detail, and more space to run the stuff in (generally).
What you choose simply depends on what lights your fire. There are no right or wrong choices, and no best or worst products. It’s a hobby, so the only person you ever have to please is yourself.
Often many of us use 027 inside of our layouts and then have a loop or two of larger curves (still “027 track”) on the outside “mainline”. Then if you get very big engines you can run them just on the"mainline". I had a lot of 027 track and sold it (went to MTH real trax) and then had to go and buy some back when I wanted a smaller layout. The big advantage to O27 is the k-line switches are MUCH cheaper than all the other switches and the cost of switches can add up in a hurry!
I too exclusively use O-27 track on my layout. As others have noted you can get 42, 54 and 72" curves. I also have been converting my Lionel O-27 27" switches over to the K-line ones - these seem to cause less derailments and look better.
027 track is more realistic than O in its lower profile. You can find 027 track that is even 72 inches in diameter (a bit confusing b/c it’s called 027 in 072). Unfortunately, turnouts in 072 are not made for 027 and probably never will, esp. since Lionel’s new thing is fasttrack.
However, you can get a Ross or Atlas 072 or for that matter a #4 or a #8 switch and mix that with the 027 track. Just line it up and solder the pieces together or solder wires between them. Take you about 5 minutes. I may even try that myself on my next layout.
Also, you can take the metal ties off with a screwdriver and replace with more realistic wood ties. They take just minutes to cut on a table saw and you can stain them with paint or black coffee and spike w/HO spikes.
In short, there are many ways to use good old 027 track.
Yes, I’m partial to the O27 stuff. I’ve always regarded three-rail as being a toy train oriented niche, and do all of my scale modeling in Z, On30, and Large Scale. I like O27-size trains and I like O27 track, although these days I use Atlas track for all of my O gauge. I’m probably in something of a minority these days, what with all the highly detailed scale-size stuff currently being offered, but that doesn’t bother me a bit. I’ll continue to enjoy my hobby any way I care to. I still have plenty of O27-size trains in my collection, and they’ll likely be there for as long as I’m around.
And, of course, I’m a big fan of Marx because I really apprecite the art of lithography as it was applied to toys. I don’t have much of the original Marx (I’m not big on beat-up originals–just a matter of personal preference), but have a fairly large collection of the nicely done New Marx trains formerly made by the Flynns
I’m an O27 guy myself, Allan, and am happy to count you as “one of us”.
Speaking of lithography, I was on vacation a few weeks back and came across two old tinplate lithoed diesels that I thought were Marx. Then the shop owner told me to look at the name on the back - Unique Arts. I also came across some Lionel replica flatcars with missiles made by Chicago City Line complete with boxes. Any one ever heard of this stuff?
In addition to what’s been said above, yes there are some locos and cars that need more than the 27 inch diameter of normal 027 track. But most of those cars and locos look as silly and “toyish” going around 031 curves as a Lionel GP9 will look going around 027 curves. With a number of engines and cars, the large switch box housing on the Lionel MPC-era designed (still made today) switches are the culprit. Sames goes for the older K-Line switches before their recent redesign.
These 027 switches still suffer from the large footprint base which also is somewhat limiting when designing a small layout. I’ve chopped and hacked my Lionel 027 switches down to literally just the track itself. This opens doors for more layout possibilies and more scenery options.
Just as a though, the Gargraves and Atlas 0 switches can be matched to 027 track and don’t have the large footprint. The Gargraves switches are a decent deal when compared to the Atlas ones, and probably just as well made.
Granted, some items won’t run on 027 track, but you won’t be spending hundreds of dollars for engines either. There are many that do make the 027 curves and clear switch housing just fine:
-Lionel 14inch length (with folded sheet metal frame) locos: GP7, GP9, GP20, GP38, U36B, and the Williams GP9
-Most 14 inch length Railking locos (they they are a little big on the height and look large and boxy on an 027 layout). The RK SD-45 from around 1998-9 and the current Rugged Rails SD90MAC are IMO the best proportioned modern looking MTH locos for small layouts. The older RK F-3 that is shorter in length also runs and looks great on a smaller layout with 027 track.
-Plus you have the Lionel and Williams NW-2’s, Centercab Switchers, Alco FA’s, The RMT Beep and Buddy,
Too bad that a thread that someone tried to initiate and keep going died a slow death. The thread was to be a listing of engines that people KNEW could handle 27" curves, overhang ignored.
My layout is all O27 track with 27, 42, and some 54 inch curves. About 1/2 are 27". Yes, I have to watch what I buy but I’ve found that many engines listed as 31" minimum will handle 27". I’ve asked both OGR and CTT why, in their reviews, they don’t mention that an engine will handle 27" curves irrespective of what the manufacturer claims. I did get an answer from both magazines and both said that they can’t go against what the manufacturer states unless they tried it with every type of track and switch made, and even then they’d be leery to make the claim. I still think that the mags could somehow qualify their statement such that we 27" guys could know if the engine under review would ‘work’ for us.
I’ve asked the same question of MTH and Lionel, with MTH only answering. The said basically the same thing that the magazines said. My feeling though is that MTH’s smallest track curve that THEY MAKE is 31" so that’s all that they care about.
I agree that the Lionel O27 switch’s motor housing is the biggest single problem though.
The K-Line switches are a major improvement over the old black O27 Lionel 1122’s and the newer brown Lionel 5122’s. One of the best advantages is being able to power them separately from a fixed voltage lug on the transformer, which can’t be done with Lionel’s, unless you enjoy performing major surgery on them. The newest low profile K-Line’s also look alot better (and seem to function better) than the older ones with the really large switch covers. Give any you might buy a good look though - I’ve had to tweek one or two new ones to keep the swivel rail flush and tight to the outside rails.
I also really like the Marx low profile switches with the plastic switch covers. The few larger/longer engines and cars I have will clear the O27 Marx switch, when they catch on the Lionel’s housing. The 34" Marx switches and curves are also a great compromise if space is somewhat limited to prevent/reduce the use of 42" switches and curves. The Marx switches are also powered separately from a fixed voltage lug, and the small Atlas switch controller (the one usually seen with HO switches) can be used to control them. The one caveat with the Marx switches is that you must add a guide rail inside the outer turnout rail to prevent a steady diet of derailments. Marx made these switches to be able to pass the infamous Marx “fat wheel” of many older Marx engines. It should go without saying (but I’ll say it anyway) that once a guide rail is glued in, “fat wheel” Marx engines won’t be able to pass through the switch.
Certainly don’t give up on O27 profile track. It’s easy to trim to any length needed with a cutoff wheel, cheap to replace if necessary (like if you fowl up some trimming), and available in wider radius curves and switches if desired. While there’s several sources for more realistic appearing O guage track (at least as “realistic” as one can get with a center rail), nothing’s as easy on the wallet as O27.
Ebay is the best source IMHO for the Marx 34" curves and switches
