Hi all. This is my first posting to this particular forum, although I’ve posted to others on this site. I’m having a heckuva time trying to figure out what scale to do my layout in, and I thought I’d throw it out here and see if anyone can help me chop up my mental block! I’ve been reading and researching for months now, and I’m just totally confused on what to do. I know I don’t want to do HO because I did that years ago and just want to try something different.
I had originally thought N because I like seeing trains run through scenery. But after buying a few items I discovered that N is, well, small! Next was On30. Nice, but it’s pretty limited to narrow gauge railroads [:O], and that’s not where my interests lie.
O is very intriguing because the other thing I love about model railroading is detailing scenes, and you certainly can do that well in O! But it takes up a lot of room. I’ll have an approximately 12-foot square area in the basement to work with, and I’ll probably get pre-fab benchwork of 2 1/2 to 3 feet wide for the layout. (Don’t have the power tools or the skill to build my own!)
Then I came around to S. To be honest, I hadn’t considered it much at first because I didn’t think there was much out there, but now I know that’s not the case–there are plenty of places to get track, locomotives, etc. And we were an American Flyer household growing up, so there is some nostalgic appeal as well.
If you’ve been kind enough to read this far without dozing off, please help me decide which scale would be best for me. I like the size of O, the simplicity of wiring that comes with 3 rail, and how many figures and details are available for it. I also like S because it’s a nice size without being as big as O, but I am concerned about how many detail items are available. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
If you check the radius of ‘S’ gage and ‘O’ gage track, you will see that there isn’t that much difference in it. So you will need about the same amount of room to turn the train around or to make a loop. So the difference is the scale length of a run. In 12 feet, it isn’t that much either, ‘O’ gage being 1:48 and ‘S’ gage being 1:64.
they both are excellent scales. If you want to do toy trains, O 3-rails is best because radius nearly same as Tom mentioned and you get bigger trains.
But if scale is what you are after, then S would be the choice unless you have lots of room or don’t mind having less train length in a given amt of space
Peter, it looks like you’re really thinking this through.
By detail items, I assume you mean things like vehicles, structures, and figures. 1/64 vehicles of course are plentiful. Figures are an awful lot tougher, but a scale ruler is your friend. Some O scale and HO scale figures scale out to something reasonable in S. The same thing happens in structures. Many O scale buildings are a bit undersize, and some HO buildings are oversize. And there is some stuff made specifically for S as well.
I’m into O myself, but I find myself looking over at S from time to time. I think I have good reason to do so.
It’s kind of hard to go wrong with either of them. They both have appeal.
Hello and [#welcome] Peter, you are in the best position. Deciding what you like. Check out some train shows, and the link to thors trains. Go to some folks houses if you get the chance.
Thanks to all for the warm welcome and words of wisdom! For those of you who pointed out that O and S are actually pretty close in track size, I have a couple of questions. What would be the minimum radius for both scales? Assuming that I don’t have layout room for the 85’ superliners and Big Boy steam engines, but just want to run “medium” length passenger cars and freight trains. The other question is about terminology in O track that has always confused me. O-27 makes a 27-inch diameter circle, right? So does an O-42 curve make a 42-inch diameter circle? How does this compare to curve radius?
PETER [#welcome][#welcome][#welcome],
0-27 is the type of track , there are two types 0-27 and 0-31. 0-31 is slightly bigger and a little more expensive not too much though. Both of them can be taken to diameters of 0-42 and 0-54. But 0-31 track can be taken to 0-72 diameter circles. 0-27 is a little less in cost. See what you would like too run but also look to the future and check out the engines that are out there to see what and how much you can afford to spend. Different engines need different track radiui. So check what is in your crystal ball first.
PETER personally I am hooked on the 0-27 scheme with my biggest radius of 0-54 and have 18 TMCC engines and love everyone of them. The choice is your and I wish you good luck.
laz57
If you haven’t already, check out this site http://www.trainweb.org/crocon/sscale.html it will give you a pretty good idea of what’s available in S. Depending on where you live you may have a LHS with S, train shows with S or have to mail order, but I think there is enough stuff to keep you happy.
Diameter is twice the radius, so O27 track has a diameter of 27" and a radius of 13 1/2", O42 has a radius of 21" and so forth. American Flyer used a radius of 20" and up.
O27 also refers to some of the Lionel cars and engines that were made to run on O27 track. Most of the O27 stuff is undersized for O scale, some of it is close to S. O scale Lionel runs on at least O31 track and some of it requires O54 or O72 track - 27" & 36" radius. All of the American Flyer as far as I know will run on 20" radius track. The compatibles are pretty much the same as far as minimum radius, except for some 80’ passenger cars in S scale from American Models whcih require 24". If you run medium stuff in O, O54 track should cover you. In S, 20" radius track should work.
I personally started with HO, moved to O, and then to S as the perfect size for me. I use scale track, wheels, and couplers. Most of the rolling stock is the same between scale and HiRail just different trucks and couplers.
While I would recommend S, I think for a Hi Rail layout either O or S will work for you in the space you have.
I’ve never been afraid of showing how dense I can be, so I’ll ask away. If I have a 4-foot wide table (48 inches), does that mean I’d have to use less than a 24" radius curve to fit on it? Or could I use an O72 curve because that would be only a 36" radius? Or does 072 mean you’d need 72 inches (6 feet?) (What can I say–I was an English major! [:I])
Paul, I’ve checked out the track offerings from both American Models and SHS. You say that in S, 20" radius track should work. Does that mean if I use American Models 27" sectional curve, that I’d actually be doing great? (And would that mean I’d need at least 54" of layout width?[%-)])
Thanks all for the help, and for not snickering too badly!
Oh, yeah, I’ve definitely considered it! [:D] That’s why when I ordered a fire truck in N and it was 2 inches long, I knew it wasn’t going to be the scale for me!
PETER,
The measurement of the curves are from inside rail to inside rail and that is whatever radius you want example half circle of 72 inch you will need 16 pcs. per circle.
laz57
PETER if you use the 0-27 type track then you can use the 0-42 track on your layout. If you choose Lionels fast tract then you will be at the 0-36 inch track plan. Check www.lionel.com
laz57
Peter,
Yes, for a 4 foot wide table you have to use less than a 24" radius. You want to allow for some room for the track since radius is normally measured to the center of the track. In the case of the 4 foot wide table 21" is about the largest radius you can use. (HO can go 22", but they have smaller track). O72 is 72 inches across a circle of track which is the diameter, this is the same as 36" radius. For O72 or 36" radius you would need a table at least 6 1/2 feet wide. This is a bare minimum, 7 feet would be better so that the track isn’t right on the edge…
Yes if you use American Models 27" radius track that will be 54" across. Again this is track center to track center. You need to allow at least 3" on each side for a total table width of 60", but you’ll be able to run everything.
When planning your layout it is a good idea to allow a little extra room. It is surprising how often you wind up needing an extra inch here and there. Also, scenery usually looks better if the track isn’t right on the edge of the table or up against the wall, plus you don’t want a derailment to wind up on the floor.
These are the radius to the center rail. The overall diameter is twice this, plus the 2-inch length of the ties. The nominal size is the approximate overall diameter.
You can get tangent (straight) track in 36" lengths from K-Line and 4-section lengths (about 35 3/8") from Lionel.
One thing that should be mentioned is that just because 27" diameter is available, that doesn’t mean it’s the best thing to use. I use 027, but I don’t run long equipment on it, I prefer to use at least 042 for most of my stuff! Many modelers that have scale size equipment use 072.
I notice that you had Flyer before… if you some nostalgia feelings for that, and want to run scale size equipment in limited space, that’s probably enough reason to chose S scale. The only reason not to chose S at this point is if you really really like what you see in O gauge better! I think it’s an emotional thing… which one really strikes your fancy? What’s your gut feeling after looking at both?
Gut feeling is the perfect way to put it, but even there I’m having trouble! I just got back from an LHS where they have a layout with all scales on it for comparison purposes. The guy working there was extremely friendly and patient (we need more of those in the stores!). Every single thing, gut feeling, told me O 3-rail. But then I would keep coming back to the size issue–I could fit more scenery, structures, and detail in S scale than in O. I just don’t know if that’s enough to outweigh all the other things I like about O!
This is really helping me, guys. I appreciate it. Keep 'em coming!
