O gauge R/C conversion (photos, description)

Garden Railroading
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Yesterday, I successfully converted my first locomotive to a new type of “command control” system used by millions of Americans, but almost nonexistant among toy train operators: remote control or R/C, not command control like DCS, TMCC or DCC which depends on rails for power or signal but R/C like that used for model boats, airplanes and racing cars everywhere.

I will show some photos and diagrams, try to explain the process in simple English, and give what I think are the pros and cons of doing this procedure. First, I want to make it clear that I’m an electronic klutz, so if I can do the
conversion, anyone can. Without the help of Austin, Texas resident Jim Duda, none of this would have been possible. We spent time emailing and on the phone, as he walked me through the procedures step by step. Thanks, Jim.

Now for the pros and cons. Keep in mind that I made the conversion less than a day ago so the information I’m providing will be incomplete, as there are many more tests to run and it is likely I will be experimenting with new types of R/C gear in the future, so I plan to use this thread to give updates (which might occasionally be few and far between, as I’m also building my outdoor layout simultaneously).

Here are some factors to consider when deciding if R/C is right for U:

If you have a layout already wired and are happy, this procedure is probably not for you; especially if you already are using some type of command and control system.

R/C conversion isn’t free, but neither is it expensive. The 3 main components: 1. onboard battery pak with charger; 2. transmitter/receiver; and 3. electronic speed controller or ESC; cost, all together, about $100. It is possible with just this gear alone, to power all of your trains, including even the Beep and Plymouth Switcher and 0-4-0, if a trailing battery car is used (converted boxcar, gondola, etc).

TIme of installation is also a factor. Once U know how to do the procedure, howeve

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WOW! A very descriptive posting! I see you had a great success!

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David,

Thanks for a very well written and interesting post. I have to ask you this one question, is your R/C system designed for aircraft or for land/water use such as cars and boats? If it’s for model airplanes ( in the 72 MHZ range) YOU CANNOT use it for your trains or anything else but planes. There are severe penalties for violation of that law.

But everything you describe can be done with a land based R/C system (in the 75 MHZ range).

Walt

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Walt- quick question and maybe we should take it over to R/C Battery section but I just looked at some of my R/C stuff -the Bachmann Big Hauler set is 27 mhz and I have a Tyco R/C helicopter that is also 27mhz- when, where, how does the frequency discipline come in? I imagine the better airplane stuff has more power/range and my stuff is low power “toy” category and I have thought of using old R/c stuff (of any source air/land/water) for a train.
PS Dave- nice job and article, I too am electronically challenge but your explanation makes me want to give it a try-Thanks Mark

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Mark,

I’m certainly not an expert in this field but I’ll share what little I do know. 27MHZ and 49MHZ are designated for use by toys and other “general purpose” uses, CB falls into this general catagory. They tend to be very low power devices with a range of only several feet. 72.01 to 72.99MHZ is reserved solely for the control of model aircraft. 75.01 to 75.99 MHZ is reserved for the control of surface models. These R/C systems have a much greater range and therefore have a much greater potential to interfere with or influence distant receivers tuned to that frequency.

The danger is that a transmitter operating in the 72 MHZ range has the potential to cause a model airplane weighing several pounds and traveling at very high speeds to to lose control and injure or even kill someone.

I’ve known about this for a long time but have just confirmed much of what I’ve just written after reading several websites dealing with R/C radio frequency allocations.

Walt

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hey fg in that last pic were u buy rocks

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Thanks Walt-good info…

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Today I’m testing for loading on one 7.2 V battery pak. Several heavy die-cast cars, 3 gondolas filled with steel bars

(one of which derailed due to bad trackwork–track pins missing). Using non-weighted cars, would be about a 16-car train

(now 8-car).

Still testing with Williams SD-45 loco; same battery, ESC hookup as previously described.

THe patio grade is approximately 4%, using mix of 042, 054, 072 curves–one or two pieces is extremely pitted with rust.

RESULTS: 7.2 is more than adequate power.

Operationally, the train seems to run better on the upgrade. On the downgrade, I found a few spots where the loco jerked

somewhat so I lowered my speed some. Over time, it seemed to smooth out a bit but operations going downhill are not as

smooth as uphill.

I’ll be conducting more tests, hooking up the single battery pak with another locomotive. Actually, lots more testing but

I have a pickup truck full of mulch and have some garden and fencing work to do today and tomorrow so may have to report

back later.

Jim Duda has assisted greatly with this project and just wanted to thank him again.

BTW, it is below freezing outside so BB the beagle and I are indoors, operating the trains remotely as we look thru the

sliding glass door. I’ve got some big band music playing so we’re chillin.

Some points of interests:

–do not place sections of track under your track like I did, b/c if you’re using track power, it’ll short your track :slight_smile:

–with wind gusts today at perhaps 20-25 mph, I’ve seen G gauge trains flip over because they present more “sail”

surface. The advantage with O scale outdoors is that it is harder to blow them over!

–note: I forgot to edit a couple of photos. When you get to those, turn your computer monitor 90 degrees to view.

–still haven’t cha

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Dave
nice pictures , you are rite it is cold out their , i’m trying to get some things done out their. like cleaning out the pond and some reballasting, and a good track cleaning .
ben

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Thanks, Ben, Still plannin to come up Sat April 8. Hopefully your garden will be blooming by then :slight_smile:

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Hi Dave,
Well done! I always enjoy seeing what others have come up with. Working with a budget means saving anywhere we can. Keep us updated on your tests. Later eh…Brian.

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Hi Brian,

Yes. Low budget it is! But I’m happy.

the garden had to wait…more experiments and success!

Successfully wired my Williams U-boat up to the SD-45 and got both locos (4 motors, 2 each), going simultaneously with just one 7.2 V battery!

It passed the torture course. About the only difference I found was that it ran slightly slower but had all the pulling power needed and seemed to be a bit smoother with 4 motors going at once.

Interestingly, before I hooked both up, I reversed wires on the one loco and it still operated both ways. However, I didn’t try any experiments with the dual-powered lashup, instead, continuing the parallel wiring of yellow to yellow, blue to blue. If it were wired backwards, I don’t know what would happen and don’t know enough about electricity to want to find out.

Eventually, I’ll wire 3 locos up.

But for now, it’s back to gardening and BB the beagle needs walking.

Eventually, I’ll publish more experiments here including the use of infrared and converting DCS to R/C-DCS, but I’m all experimented out for a while and it may be some time before I add to this.

Incidentally, the wiring for both Williams locos is identical to the diagram at the beginning of this post.

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I see you are using a Hi-Tech Ranger II TX and a BEC for voltage adjustment. What reciever, speed control, and sound triggers are you using? I will be using 18v. battery packs. Do you need to run a second battery for powering the RX and speed controler? Could you give more detail on parts/cost please?
Thanks,
JimC.

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Jim,

Here’s a rundown on every part and detailed description. Be happy to answer more questions. THis particular ESC can take 12V; however, it is designed for much more amperage than a train typically uses so you can go up a few volts. But I’m not sure about 18 volts. Might run hot. No second battery is used, as you will see from my descriptions that follow… (BTW, if you don’t hook up lights and circuitry, I bet you can run your train at less voltage, if just powering the motor(s)

Here’s complete parts list and instructions:

  1. R/C car battery pack and charger 7.2 V Ni-Cd 2000mAH
    From Radio Shack.
    $20

Or, you could go to an R/C hobby shop and get a 7.2V NiMh 38000, as it’ll last even longer (though I’ve been on my single battery for hours now.

  1. ProBoat Waterproof ESC (Electronic Speed Control with Reverse
    http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB2314
    $40

  2. Ranger II HiTec Radio transmitter/receiver (order any channel)
    http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXARP0**&P=0
    $40

Total = $100

Plus, you’ll need connectors and you might want a 10Amp fast blow fuse.

Instructions:

  1. Prepare some test track

  2. Open loco shell and remove rollers

  3. If you’re not familiar with electronics, cut all wires from the motors except the 2 power wires (the blue and yellow shown in the diagram at the top of this post).

  4. Wire your loco so that the yellow wire connects both motors and a tether for the battery car (if you choose to use a battery car). Do the same for the blue wire. That is all the wiring you’ll be doing inside the loco, the rest of the wiring will take place in your battery car.

  5. After charging your Radio Shack (or

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David,
The specs for the ESC you have say 4 - 10 cells. ie. 4.8 - 12 volts.
It has been my experience that unless the manufacturer of an ESC specifies a higher voltage, you will be tempting the ESC to accidentally release “magic” smoke if you try higher than the specs.
If you need to operate with higher than 12 volts you will require an ESC designed for R/C trucks or a specialist type designed for trains.

The second channel can indeed be used for other things.
Triggering sound systems is one.

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Hi Tony,

The ESC (electronic speed controller) instructions say it can handle up to 30 amps continuous FWD, and 20 amps continuous in reverse. Those are much much greater currents than those used for O gauge (and probably G as well). In fact, the power leads from the ESC are 12 gauge, while the power wires to the train motors are a mere 20 gauge. Voltage is just one aspect of current. Amps is the other.

I’d suggest contacting the manufacturer, since I’m not the expert. Be sure to tell them how many amps the loco draws. However, they may be unwilling to go against their specs. Someone familiar with electronics who doesn’t have a special interest in the matter would be able to better advise.

In any case, I didn’t take any chances and my ESC is protected with a 10 amp quick blow fuse.

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Well, I promise, this is the last test for today as I’ve a heap of gardening to do.

Just finished preparing my battery car, a Williams semi-scale NYC P&LE boxcar. Everything fits nicely inside and there’s even room for a second battery pack.

I make it less messy, I taped the ESC and receiver to the boxcar ceiling, as there’s no need to touch those. I left out the screws so that I can quickly pull off the top if I need to charge the battery. The ESC/battery switch (on/off) is located near the door so I can open the door and flip the switch. I cut a small hole in the base of the car to allow the motor wires to exit.

BTW, if you think that this is too much work for R/C and that you’d like to get into G scale; forget it. Folks in G scale also have to do this with their R/C components as trains in G are not sold R/C ready-to-run. Strange but true.

I set up a new test track indoors and still running off the same battery I started with. I discovered that when the ESC is run in reverse, operations are much, much smoother. Reverse doesn’t necessarily mean your train is going backwards either. Just turn the loco around and hook the leads up the other way. It appears that the ESC works BEST when it is drawing more amps from the battery. I attribute this to the probability that R/C boat owners usually run their boats flat out and besides, the boats draw way many more amps than the train. Also, slow operations were much improved when the ESC is used in reverse.

BTW, although the ESC is rated at just 12 v max, it can accommodate 30 amps in forward and 20 in reverse.

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David,
With respect.

That 12 volt max rating means just that. 12 volts max.
That it can handle 30 amps is irrelevant in this case.
The maximum voltage of an ESC is governed by the tolerance of the components the manufacturer uses. In this case I have no doubt the components used are capable of 12 volts and no more.
For instance. Sierra sound systems have a 6 volt battery that charges off track voltage. This battery can be replaced with a REGULATED 12 volt supply fed into terminals 2 & 4 which normally provided a 5 volt supply for lights etc. 12 volts is fine. 13 volts will release that “magic” smoke that keeps electronics working as long as you don’t see it.

High current ESC’s that can handle higher voltages cost a lot more. I mean a lot more.

BTW a properly designed ESC should be capable of the same smoth performance in either direction. That they might be mismatched is quite likely due to the way most boat owners operate. Off to flat out and back again.

Nevertheless. Congratulations on your experiments.

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Thanks, Tony. Fortunately for me, 7.2 is adequate. R/C’s are also available in approx 8.4 but I’m getting more than enough power for my needs.

Cheers.

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All - Since his train is travelling at +70 Scale MPH @ 7.2 volts, it is likely that anything over 9.6 volts will turn it into a missle…at 12 Volts it’ll go supersonic, so the concern about his $40 ESC being able to handle more than 12 Volts is probably moot. Remember, this is a LOW BUDGET experiment…

Interestingly, this particular ESC is recommended for a type of boat that uses two 7.2 volt battery sticks wired in SERIES (14.4 volts). I have not tried it at that voltage yet…

If your application needs more than 12 volts, there are more expensive ESCs available.