O/T Binary Explosives, Small Quantity Potential.

In the last few days Homeland Security has suddently become aware of the Potential threats of attacks on Haz-Mat Loads on US Railroads.

This link is to a You Tube site about the potential power of binary explosive mixes in small amounts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HavMghNEU7o

I thought it might be illuminating for us to get an idea of what a small quantity can do and the potentials in major quantities as well. In particular are the apparent demands that they seem to be publishing in television broadcasts, and in newspapers, about knowing within a rediculuosly short period of time where all the Haz-Mat loads are on a given railroad.

Pretty funny stuff. Notice how you never see the actual explosion, even in slow motion? It just goes from the melon there to a smoking post. Whoever did this never watches CSI (well, it is British).

I will admit to not having watched the video. Having a dial-up connection can be a real pain sometimes. But I did read the comments that some people had posted about the video, and there seemed to be quite a few who felt that it was a hoax.

Something struck me about your comment. You said that it went from a melon to just a smoking post. What? Does that mean that the explosive was not powerful enough to cause damage to a post? That seems a little strange. Perhaps the whole thing really was faked.

Take 500 grains of black powder, place it lose on a tray and ignite, you get a nice cloud of smoke and a pretty sparkler show.

Put the same 500 grains in a brass cartridge, with a lead bullet sized into that, confine it all in a gun barrel…big difference in performance out of the same material.

Because the melon offered less resistance than the post it was sitting on, it would give long before the post would, and because the explosive was not contained or aimed, the post would suffer little damage anyway.

Still, something about the video didn’t ring quite true, almost as if the reaction time was removed or edited.

Although I can think of two different products you have under you kitchen or bathroom sink or wash room that combined with cheap automotive brake fluid make a fantastic explosive, are hypergolic and make a really fast and cheap shake n’ bake bomb, so…

I would be a little more inclined to give credit if they had named the chemicals used in the mix

There was a “jump” in the video, a sure sign of a bit of stop action editing, and obviously not done by a pro. As Ed said, if it had blown up the melon, why would the post be smoking? Plus, look up the word “binary.”

My other concern was that the chemicals would have had to creat a tremendous amount of heat to truly vaporize the melon and all the moisture it contained.

Given the amount of moisture, and the consistancy of a melon, there should have been some splatter effect, the lens, or the plastic “shield” in front of the camera should have melon juice or particulate all over it, given the explosive force shown.

Had it been a harder target, say a softball or something like that, and had they inserted the explosive inside it, instead of taping it to the side, as they did with the melon, I would accept the total destruction of the target…contained explosions are quite powerful, un contained ones are just interesting and loud.

There is a reason demo folks like CDI use shaped charges, encases them with sandbags, and then boxes it all in with plywood.

One of the reasons I posted this was that it seems relevant to today’s world. In particular, in the last 96 hours or so, there has been a flurry of pronouncements, and warnings from Homeland Security, referencing rule making and the results they desire on tracking of Haz-Mat matyerials. What they are going to demand in relationship to Haz-Mat loads of any stripe; and how they are to be watched and guarded and notations of trains and locations noted so they can be tracked by the Feds within a very short time frame when these loads are out in the US Rail Networks, on apparently, anyone’s railroad.

It has been admitted, in one piece I saw, the prrice tag for all this is going to be somwhere north of $150 million dollars.

Politicians use fear to sway the populace and the war on terror is no different. It is a vote-getter when used with care.

There is nothing that the government can do to make our nation 100% safe. But there are things that can be done to make the nation reasonably safe. It can be a fine line. As I recall, there was a young charismatic leader elected to power about seventy years ago that used fearmongering to strengthen government’s hold on the populace.

There are all kinds of ways to mix up something that will go BANG! Most of them have been well known for years or even centuries.

Suddenly Homeland Security perceives a threat…

I think the threat they perceived was to their budget! (You have to do SOMETHING to justify the bucks you want from Congress.)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)