http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10380
I do not know were he is getting these facts or is just cherry picking.
What O’Toole says makes a whole lot of sense!
I just don’t know who this guy think he is? If we had 5 trains a day on the Pittsburgh to New York Route. That would surely get a lot more people from my area to visit Pittsburgh and Harrisburg. I mean with Pittsburgh Bus & light rail service you really don’t need a car.
I think he may be miss informed or is closed minded, I have watched a video and he is thinking that much of this high speed 90-110 mph is going to diesel powered. Lasted I checked they are planning on electrifying the high-speed rail corridors, even through Pennsylvania.
He has also made statements that it will be a money losing venture. Amtrak draws half of it’s money from the Acela service, who’s to say the other half can’t come from the new routes. If the offer frequent enough trains popularity will pick-up
I am just saying air traffic is congested it is more expensive to build onto highways and maintain them, what do you suggest we do. Improvements to high-speed rail and even freight rail may not improve the states of the highways, but it could prevent them from getting worse.
"Who would pay five times the price to save less than 90 minutes? Those wealthy enough to value their time that highly would pay the extra $20 to take the plane. "
Check your statistics and see how many people ride the bus from DC to NYC vs how many fly vs how many take the train.
Then start 3 people at the Smithsonian and travel, one by each method, to a theater on Broadway and see which one gets there first. Don’t forget to include the cab or subway fare door to door in your cost calculation.
It’s an opinion piece. He’s allowed to cherry-pick, stretch and assume things to support his point of view. Do you think he “hates rail” or just doesn’t like “unnecessary” taxation and spending? Do you think there is room to agree to disagree on these matters?
Those who’ve used the Phila airport, or “enjoyed” the experience of the Pittsburgh airport and the drive to the city, or drive downtown to downtown including the Schuylkill and East Penn at rush hour, or the less than totally relaxing drive on the turnpike, might disagree. I’m not even sure that flying would save you 90 minutes over driving… But that is my opinion and I’m cherry picking my own facts and making assumptions.
Don, it doesn’t sound like you’re cherry-picking, more like you’ve driven the Surekill Expressway at rush hour. And also know how that road got its nickname.
I didn’t say that. That was a quote from Mr. O’Toole’s article.
I was challenging it.
Anybody who reads these posts knows that Phoebe Vet is a thoughtful commentator on transit and intercity rail. From an earlier post in the Transit section, here’s what I found out about Mr. O’Toole, who has made a living as a self-styled expert on urban planning, light rail, etc.
Two articles, which though nasty in tone, pretty well expose O’Toole:
http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/06/02/randal-otoole-taking-liberties-with-the-facts/
http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/07/07/transit-hater-randal-otoole-gets-no-love-at-senate-hearing/
Sorry Mr. O’ Toole, you are talking a pure “Free Enterprise System”. Our “Economy” is only based on the “Free Enterprise System” with a large amount of goverment input and/or control. Tax money is often used to promote “The Common Good”. Passenger Rail is not Socialism, it’s a Public Service that would not be profitable without help from the taxpayer. If it ever became profitable, the Government would sell it off as it did with Conrail.
Under a “For Profit” economy, Passenger Rail could not exist because a profit would not be possible at a price the public would be willing to pay. Most all industrial countries around the world, and the United States in 1971, decided Passenger Rail Service was needed to promote Commerce and should be built and/or subsidised by the Government. Freed of Passenger Service, the Freight Railroads became VERY profitable independent companies. The public has embraced high speed rail around the world and in the U.S. with Amtrak’s “Acela”. Will it work outside of the Northeast, maybe ! Look at it as "is the service needed", not if it could make a profit. If it was profitable, investors would be easy to find.
Do we want the United States Government to widen all the Interstate Highways and build new roads, most people would say “yes” until it comes to taking the land. Do we really need Interstate Highways running across vast areas of Farm Land serving few people. A two lane road will do for short haul and Airlines can handel the long haul. Should Towns, Cities, States, and the Feds build more Airports to promote Commerce ? Do we want 8 and 10 lane Interstates cutting through the center of our cities or could High Speed Rail at distances of less than 500 miles be better ?
I knew that. Sorry if my inept quoting left the wrong impression…
and many, many “fun” hours on the PA turnpike, too.
Or got stuck at airports for a day or too on snowy, foggy days when the Amtrak are still running[:-^]
Or the security issues that leave one having to come a few hours before you’re due to fly out…and then wait and wait and wait----[:-^]
Or the minor issue of flying being partially subsidized. Hey, how is ANYONE going to make any $$$ on a seat sale with $30? And don’t get me started on the surcharges/extra fees and etc—
Or my favorite—Montreal’s old/new airport that was about 50km out of town—that was efficient[:-^]
We are back to that word, need again. If the existence of need is the only criterion of whether or not to spend public money on an improvement, then there can never be a reason to oppose such public spending. Then the only limit on public spending will be the availability of money.
Now you got it, Need is in the eye of the beholder.
Why can the “Acela” be so successful, and it is. It’s “All Reserved”, “First Class” and “Business Class” only, a business man can get on board without a “hassel”, he can conduct business and make cell calls along the way, get there and get back the same day. Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.
Now the mass public (Coach Class) from smaller and distance cities wants the the same, no, NEEDS the same. After all, it’s there “Taxpayer Money” paying for Amtrak. This is not Need, this is Congress trying to get equality (in Washington terms, money) for their State. Maybe, just maybe, if Amtrak was like the Interstate Highway System, the U.S. Goverment pays 90% of the cost to build and equip and the States pay 10%, then they split the maintenance cost. Maybe we would find out how bad the need is and maybe the money would go where needed.
The Northeast Corridor from Boston to Washington parallels Interstate 95, in a lot of cases running alone side it. The Corridor connects Boston, Providence, New Haven, New York, Newark, Phiadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, and Washington, all large cities. Some have stops on city beltways, Route 128, Metropark, BWI airport. The only place, so far, that Amtrak works.
He makes points about how many people here or even in Europe and Asia actually use the trains every year in terms of miles. How many people actually fly every year in terms of miles?
Look I am not saying everyone is going to use it, but service would certainly be pick-up and be used by more people. The whole reason I don’t travel to Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, or Lancaster, PA is because of the frequency. If I could take a morning train on day 1 of my trip, arrive in Lancaster the same morning, enjoy the second day of my visit and take an evening train back to western PA. It’s that kid of model that he is not seeing.
Don’t get me started on make it easier to get into Pittsburgh. Route 22 (a.k.a Permanent road construction), pay tolls on the turnpike, or congested Rt. 422. If I could board a train get to Pittsburgh in an hour or so, then take the bus, taxi, or walk to were I want to go. Then take a later train back.
…Don’t forget {according to current TRAINS mag.}, California’s Amtrak / and State supported network works rather well too.
LOL. The drive from Pittsburgh International to downtown isn’t that bad as long as you don’t mind the experience of the Parkway West at 70 mph, bumper to bumper. The Parkway is a ingenious instrument of death and destruction designed in 1945 to handle 40,000 cars per day, that now sees 200,000 vehicles per day. Of course, that 70 mph speed only lasts as long as the first multi-car pile up, which occurs about every 15 minutes during rush hour. Then you quickly realize why it is locally called the Parking Lot West. If you make through that demolition derby, then you get to sit in the six mile long backup leading into the Fort Pitt Tunnel to get into downtown. Gives a whole new meaning to the expression “hurry up and wait”.