Obama budget plan: More money for ‘high speed’ rail
The Obama Administration Thursday unveiled a budget plan that identifies $5 billion in funding over a five-year period for “high speed” passenger rail projects in the U.S., supplementing the $8 billion it provided in its stimulus package for a two-year period.
In describing the outlay, officials said the funding would help states or groups of states create “several high-speed rail corridors” linking “regional population centers” across the country, as opposed to targeting existing infrastructure needs.
As generally defined in the U.S., “high speed” refers to train operations capable of 110 mph or better, a measure that falls short of a broader international definition of HSR, which often sets the initial HSR mark at 186 mph or better. Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor offers top speeds of 150 mph in New England, but only 135 mph in other locations (mostly south of New York).
The Administration is recommending a FY10 budget for the Department of Transportation of $72.5 billion, up from the FY09 level of $70.5 billion.
My only issue with the Buget he is Proposing is the Deficet that is coming with it the Budget is 4 Trillion dollars. However the Deficet is 1.75 TRILLION so almost half of the budget is DEBT added to what my kids and grandkids will have to pay back. How much longer before the citizens of this nation get tired of seeing the SHORT TERM and will realize that this nation is beyond broke we are freaking bankrupt wiorse than the PC and the other roads that were combined into Conrail into the 70’s. Yet we keep sending the same idiots back to Washington that all they do is spend more than they get. After this Fisical year we will be over 12,000,000,000,000 in debt yet Congress and the President lives within its means.
I don’t know if you watched the speech before Congress, but there was quite a bit on focusing on the long term improvements that investing in the infrastructure (plus other issues, but I won’t go into that) will give us, instead of going for short term benifits.
If you’ve been reading Don Phillips’ column in TRAINS recently, he’s been talking about the transportation meltdown that’s on the horizon. Amtrak trains are sold out, yet the lack of equipment is preventing it from expanding service. Amtrak is constantly juggling equipment to keep trains moving; the worst shortages are the electric locomotives and coaches. And when mechanical failures take a unit out of service, trains are delayed or cancelled. And still more people means more demand…
Also, using your example of Penn Central (without getting into the non-railroad topics; I’m straying pretty far into politics as it is), wasn’t one of the main reasons they failed was infrastructure?
Their track was degrading, causing speed restrictions. The schedules increased, and shippers started to switch to trucks, unhappy with the extra time it took to move their freight. Plus Penn Central had to pay for all the derailments caused by the bad track as well. And the lost money meant less money for track repairs. It all went downhill from there.
Same with the locomotive fleet; they were held together with bailing wire and bubble gum; and Penn Central had to pay to repair the broken units, and then they’d have shortages of locos so trains would run short, delaying shipments even more. That would cause even more shippers to switch to trucks. And the lost revenue meant less money to spend repairing locomotives and/or buying new ones.
If we didn’t invest in our infrastructure, America would be in trouble… Even the money we’re already investing isn’t enough, according to the CEO of Norfolk Southern. But it’s a start…
Amtrack is not the issue I am having with the overall Budget. Yes Amtrak needs a DEDICATED funding source how about a 2 cent per gallon tax on what the RR’s burn in Diesel Fuel instead of releying on what scraps get thrown to them via Congress and what ever the President thinks they need. Look The Goverment right now has a Declared debt of over 10 Trillion dollars and an UNDECLARED on due to unfunded programs coming up of over 52 TRILLION. Yet Congress thinks that inserting a 4 billion dollar earmark into a bill for some Congressan to get reelected is fine. Sorry that is called ROCKETING THIS NATION TO THE POORHOUSE.
Let’s see: Right now Amtrak pays the railroads about $1,200 for every train it runs on a freight railroad. Your solution, a 2 cent per gallon fuel tax on the railroads, calls for Amtrak to only pay $175 per train. I’m incredulous. This seems like a plan to bankrupt the railroads. Why do you think this is a good policy for the U.S.?
By the way, that $1,200 Amtrak pays to run a train on a freight railroad is less than someone pays to move one trailer by train from Chicago to New York City. Is it any wonder why railroads are a little bit frustrated?
Note: You’ve got to dig into page 20, Note 7, of Amtrak’s annual report, to uncover how much it pays the freight railways to use their track. In 2007, it was $92.7 million. Amtrak has about 300 train starts daily. Subtracting those in the NEC on Amtrak’s track, if one assumes there are 200 operating on Amtrak’s original authority and 403(b) on the freight railways elsewhere every day, that means Amtrak is paying $92.7 million/200/365 = $1,269 per train to buy access. Railroads burned 4,192,000,000 gallons in 2006 x 0.02 cents per gallon per the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. A $0.02 tax = $80 million dollars per year. $92.7mm - $80mm = $12.7mm, $12.7/200/365 is ~
Amtrak does run itself… For the most part. Yes, it does operate state-sponsered services, and it is funded by the government, but it’s not like the government controls it.
Amtrak is incapable of making money for itself in the US. Gone are the days when passenger service was profitable. Amtrak cannot make a profit, no matter what the goverment does. That was the mistake the government has been making ever since Amtrak was created; they thought that it should be able to pay for itself, and if it couldn’t, it should be elimanated.
Think of it like as if they expected the interstate highways to pay for themselves. Sure, the gas tax pays for it, and maybe if Amtrak could tax people, it could pay for itself. But it can’t, so our regular taxes pay for it. So it’s really no different than the interstate highways. The money still comes from taxes, but they appear to come from a different place, so people still complain about it.
“But what if I don’t ride Amtrak? Why should I pay for it?”
Do you drive on the highways? Yes? No? You’ve been paying for them for years too and haven’t complained a bit!"
Why would you tax the freight railroads, to give the money to Amtrak, to help Amtrak run on the freight railroads, paying what is essentially below market prices?
I did not say a 2% tax on their fuel I said a 2 Cent Per GALLON on the fuel they burn. It is either that or GET OUT OF PASSENGER Rail entirely with Amtrak and tell the Freight RR’s YOU take them back over and run them. However here are the Conditions You must run them for a min of 30 years after the service is given back to you order new cars for the service also expand the service with no money and deal with the other RR’s when it comes time to try to get anything done. Amtrak was set up to get the US out of Passenger service however the Oil Embargo forced us to kepp it alive. It has been that step Child that no one wants for close to 40 years now. When will someone have the guts to do one or the other shut it down and make the Unons and the Riders mad or Fix it the right way with a dedicated funding source for both its operations and capital stream to allow it to expand service and replace and repair equipment on an as needed basis.
So you want the shippers of freight by rail to not only continue to subsidize the public service of Amtrak, but now pay even a bigger subsidy? I think I asked earlier, do you want the shippers to quit using rail? And the railways to disappear? Because that is what this will lead straight to.
Fine then make it a penny a gallon on ALL FUELS burned by cars planes trains trucks barges and SHIPS would that make you happy. BNSF fills each tank with 3500 gallons when they do stop for fuel that would be 70 dollars per tank in tax for Amtrak funding. In a year IIRC BNSF goes thru 800 millon Gallons of Fuel UP is right at 1 Billon Gallons of Fuel those 2 RR would give 36 Millon towards Amtrk for funding for Capital needs NS CSX CN CP would be roughly close to that. Yet you are saying the RR’s would lose revenue on that. Right now the OTR trucking industry is IMPLODING there is no one else to haul it here are some companies close to shutting their doors forever Celadon Gainey Transportation Knight is having issues I talked to a Millis Buddy of mine they are close to shutting down. Combined you are looking at 10 thousand trucks here there are rumors that TMC is also close to going belly up along with Maverrick the 2 of the larger Flatbed fleets. On the reefer side of things England is hurting big time along with alot more we are looking at loosing 15-30% of the OTR industry and putting out of work 10’s of thousands of people both drivers and support staff at one time. I asked my father and he has never seen things this bad ever and he was around during the Oil embargo and when the industry was deregulated and this makes that look like a fart.
I agree with your point about rocketing this nation into the poorhouse, however, I don’t see the logic of signaling out freight railroads or any other specific private industry to subsidize a public good such as Amtrak. If that were logical, why not tax truckers by the gallon of fuel burned to help fund Amtrak?
Did you read what I wrote earlier? Passenger rail in the US is incapable of making money. Period. The freight railroads could do it back in the 50s and earlier because it was in a pre-interstate highway period. Nowadays a passenger railroad in the US cannot raise it’s fares enough to make money, because if they do, their passengers will take the bus, plane, or car. And too many Americans are unwilling to take the train, so passenger railroads can’t go for quantity either.
Passenger railroads in Europe are either government funded (like Amtrak) or can haul enough passengers to make a profit. Enough people either don’t mind taking the train (unlike many Americans who don’t want to be inconvenienced) or who don’t own a car in the first place. It’s a totally different situation for passenger rail over there.
Amtrak was created to bail out the failing US railroads, who couldn’t afford to run money-losing passenger trains, but were required to. It wasn’t to get the US out of passenger service, it was to keep the transportation infrastructure from completely collapsing. It was actually too late to save Penn Central and a whole host of other lines, and Conrail ended up finishing the job of fixing the transportation system.
Our fearless Governor from Wisconsin is so set upon getting monies from the spending bill that He went to Spain to see how the “high speed” passenger trains over there works for his ideas to run “high speed” trains from Milw to Chicago and to link Madison and Green Bay (Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton) Four point something billion dollar debt and He goes over seas to watch trains.
I’m running for governor and I’m going to appoint fellow railfans to posts. It doesn’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes or have a criminal past, it’s all ok now. “So don’t fear, a train in your future is near.” That’s going to be my slogan
Why don’t we just put a 2 cent per gallon tax on all the fuel used by OTR trucks, and use that money to subsidize Greayhound buses. Better yet, let’s give the bus passngers to the OTR trucking industry and tell them they have to haul them. There’s room for a couple passengers in each sleeper, so it wouldn’t be that much of a burden on the industry.
Murphy Siding one small Problem on that one. Called DOT regulations and Insurance requirments. Ever tried to get a Passenger Endorsement on a CDL let me tell you this makes getting a Hazmat look easy. Also with your Idea were is the Team co driver going to SLeep for all the team trucks plus when Amtrak was formed the RR’s were losing Millions each year. Last I check last year the UP and BNSF had RECORD Profits for last Year and Quarter. We all know passenger service never covers its farebox however you Tax the OTR industy anymore considering what the California Air Resources Board is ramming hoime right now you want to see a riot on your hands. Word to the wise everyone it is almost to the point were every carrier out there including the MEGA boys JB Swift and Scheinder are about to California to STUFF IT were the Sun does not shine. Here is the latest that they came up with they want every trailer in the Nation fitted with skirting if it has even a chance it might see California by the end of 2009 if not retrofitted and pulled in there buy Jan 1 2010 they will fine the carrier 10K per trailer that they own. They are also including expanding contianer chassis also tanker and all stlyes of flat beds. CARB is also not going to pay for this. This will cost 3-5 thousand per trailer to do and save maybe 1 thousand in fuel over the life of the trailer. Welcome to the nuthouse the inmates have taken over in California.
