I began in this hobby in 1953 at the age of three with a Marx set with an oval of track. I moved on to American Flyer in my pre-teenage years, and then on to HO, to G to N and then to back again to O with MTH.All of this activity spans over a half century culminating to date in two marriages, four children and five grandchildren. The point of this is an admittedly personal view and perhaps a minority one in an age of fascination with all the wonders of the electronic age. I reentered O with MTH with it’s entry into the market with ProtoOne and had acquired a modest amount of engines when I discovered that a battery failure would destroy my investments. I purchased capacitor batteries for all four engines. Then, ProtoTwo arrived,and instantly, the technology my equipment possessed was now irrevocably obsolete.
Retrofitting my engines for this upgrade to Proto Two made me ruminate beyond the obvious expense this would require. I did the math. Instead of buying new equipment, I would be retrofitting the old, as well as then asking myself, what were the possibilities of a Proto Three? . Then the cost of the remote equipment to make these all features work…then after some research, there were no local shops who could repair the electronics without my shipping them off…yet another expense. My infatuation with MTH halted for a pause to consider the evolution of what is essentially an recreational investment whose cost had suddenly been squared. I read accounts of programming, downloads,revisions, etc. It sounded more like a job description to this now retired industrial engineer.
I went back to the beginning and bought fifty year old plus Marx equipment on Ebay. I cleaned and lubricated them and they ran as fine as the day they left the factory. I looked at my boxes of MTH Proto One equipment which are soon to be shipped to Ebay for sale at a loss.A pragmatic recognition that all that glitters is not gold.
Am I the only frugal iconoclast who is refusing to follow these trends toward
I have a simple approach similar to yours. I buy postwar Lionel at the swap meets and I run it just like I did my first train in 1950. I think the new electronic controls are nice, but I haven’t gone that direction yet. I buy the stuff the collectors don’t want because it has scratches or dings. I take everything apart and lubricate and clean it. I built layouts with a lot of switches and crossovers, and wire the switches so that they all are operated by the train and not by me. (More on this later in another post.) I enjoy watching a single train go around the layout operating all the switches without me doing anything except making sure everything stays on the track. I have a layout in two bedroom of my 3 bedroom townhouse that has 32 022 O gauge switches. Most of the switches are wired in pairs so that when the train goes over one of the switches, the other switch throws. By doing this, the train takes about half an hour to make a complete run over the whole layout. I have added a stepper switch to the layout so that one of the switches is controlled by the stepper. In some cases, the stepper operation can be random, so the position of the switch it controls is a random binary sequence which means that the pattern never repeats. More on this in another post. BTW, the stepper cost me $8, and I had to build a small DC power supply to make it operate.
My interest is in things mechanical and electronic, not in building scenery or buildings. I just enjoy watching the train run over this complex layout. I am an electrical engineer with almost a half century of experience and make night vision stuff for the military.
My understanding is that Lionel’s newer control systems have been designed to still allow older equipment to run, but that MTH’s control system will only work with MTH stuff??
Your operation would make for one heck of a video to post on Youtube…it’s a shame we cant post them here. I have found that I have an equal interest in restoring the trains as I do running them.Some are certainly more challenging than oth
You comment is very true about the electromechanical devices. The stepper was very simple to hook up and make work. It is also simple to change. It is relatively noise immune. Only problem is that it is apparently out of production. A search of the Internet did not reveal any available. I bought all of the 12 volt units at the surplus shop, and I have 6 of them which is probably a lifetime supply. They still have some 28 volt and 48 volt units, but the voltage required to operate them is a little too high for safety. As I said, I like to watch the trains run and I like to see them run over a complex layout.
I also enjoy taking old things and making them work again. The oldest train I have is a Lionel made in 1915, and it runs just fine. Most of the older stuff just needs to be rewired and lubed. BTW, I use 5W-20 engine oil for lube. It is easy to apply using a paper clip and it has a very low vapor pressure which means it doesn’t evaporate and leave a gummy mess behind. Grease will eventually get hard as the oil evaporated, and 3 in 1 oil also leaves a gummy mess behind. I lubricate all the wheels, couplers, and bolsters on my cars so they have minimal friction. They also stay on the track better when they are lubricated. About 2 drops of oil per wheel seems to be about right.
Great layout…what type of accessory controllers do you use? I have been looking for any by Marx without any success. I’m not sure what they did and did not make. Believe or not, I’m restricting buildings to tin as well…I have had more luck with tin buildings than accessory controllers. It looks like you used (Lifelike?) grass mat? It also looks like the ballast is painted on the mat. Did you have problems with the paint wicking when soaking into the mat? It doesn’t appear that way in the photo. The reason I’m asking is I may use this mat for my layout versus simply painting the top with green paint. I really like the look of that bullet proof target signal in the foreground. What is the size of the layout? Personally, these are the types of layouts I would prefer to see In Classic Toy Trains…versus the mega behemoths ( which are not my cup of tea) …I would love to see a survey of layout sizes in the magazine. I would be surprised if many private layouts were the size of the majority covered in the magazine. This also seems to a case of “can you top this?” I was glad to see the current project layout is smaller than a proverbial aircraft carrier. The smaller size allows me to place the layout in a more user friendly environment like one of our spare bedrooms or the living room as it is portable due to it’s smaller size on locking casters. No matter how much I attempted to make the basement “livable” I always felt like I was isolated from the family which always led to: “When are you going to be done down there?” always at a critical moment. Another advantage is the most critical as we
Nice layout indeed. And interesting thread. While not solely a Marx aficionado - though I have fortunate to have some of their accessories - I got them through trainmarket.com, I do subscribe to a basic approach to the hobby - trains run on their own isolated ‘loops’; few switches - and those manual and within reach; only 027 curves; conventional power. It works for me. And I while I can admire the more modern stuff, just don’t want to get into it.
I am also in the “old geezer” realm at age 60. I’ve had Marx, AF, Lionel, HO, G, and MTH (including Proto 1 and 2). I now own a mix of MTH and Lionel prewar (transformers) and postwar as well as modern (except for the Legacy stuff) rolling stock and locos. I guess I take a more morbid viewpoint. I got into MTH after Proto 2 came out. Although I do have a Proto 1 FM Trainmaster that I will eventually have converted to Proto 2. So I never suffered through the Proto 1 agony. I am also a big fan of 3 rail O-scale trains, although I do have some Lionel poswar S-2 turbines and traditional cars to run with them. I am not going to cry over the obsolescence of Proto 1 to Proto 2. Think about the computer you are typing on. Other than the staff at CTT, I would bet EVERYONE is using a computer that is now considered “obsolete”. Yet they are still using that computer. Unless you feel a pressing need to be state-of-the-art ALWAYS, obsolence isn’t a BAD thing. And the morbid part of my thinking…at age 60 I don’t think I have enough time remaining on planet Earth to worry about such things. I will run what I have and have fun with it. You run what you enjoy and enjoy what you run. It makes no sense to dwell in the past or regret what has preceded you. You can’t change any of it. So just sit back and enjoy the present. [;)]
I absolutely agree with what Deputy said. We are fortunate today that there are so many options and choices that no one in the hobby is stuck with just one way of operating, one method, etc.
But as I read through this post, a thought came to mind which Deputy hit at: we think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars to replace an old computer that is out dated or won’t allow one to take advantage of all the new advances. It’s almost a given… “well, it’s time to get rid of the old computer and get a totally new one.”
Yet with all the advances in our train world, the old postwar mentally still lingers on. The old trains lasted forever and many times became worth more money, so the new ones should too! I can’t think of one modern product be it VCR’s, DVD players, CD players, cell phones, answering machines, computers etc. that lasts the way older products lasted. Those old telephones could fall on the floor, be thrown or dropped or flooded and would still work… don’t try that will a new type of phone.
The difference is these other products are all mass-market and sell in the millions. You can buy a DVD player for $30-40 so when it dies, you don’t think too much about simply buying a new one. Trains are another story. The new high end trains have only a few thousand made and can cost hundreds of dollars (and more). But the legacy of postwar persists today and like those trains, it’s expected that the new digital trains will work for decades to come.
I was pulling apart an old CD boom box for parts and was impressed with how well it was made and how well it was put together. But it was the circuitry that finally failed. Regardless that it was a well made quality unit, it was something related to the circuit boards that went. Actually the DC motor inside still worked when I wired it up direct. It just seems to me the modern circuit boards and such just do not have the longevity we’d
I feel all new engines should be manufactured command ready with a common connections for the boards. This would allow the user to easily install any command system he wishes or none at all.A common set up would also allow aftermarket manufactures to pick up the pieces once a certain system goes obsolete.
I enjoy the present, thank you. Your inference that I do not is mildly irritating. We all have choices and I am not particularly evangelistic about my own toward you nor anyone else. If that works for you that’s fine by me. I wasn’t intending to debate this because we both know that’s a waste of time as beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I absolutely agree with what Deputy said. We are fortunate today that there are so many options and choices that no one in the hobby is stuck with just one way of operating, one method, etc.
But as I read through this post, a thought came to mind which Deputy hit at: we think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars to replace an old computer that is out dated or won’t allow one to take advantage of all the new advances. It’s almost a given… “well, it’s time to get rid of the old computer and get a totally new one.”
Yet with all the advances in our train world, the old postwar mentally still lingers on. The old trains lasted forever and many times became worth more money, so the new ones should too! I can’t think of one modern product be it VCR’s, DVD players, CD players, cell phones, answering machines, computers etc. that lasts the way older products lasted. Those old telephones could fall on the floor, be thrown or dropped or flooded and would still work… don’t try that will a new type of phone.
The difference is these other products are all mass-market and sell in the millions. You can buy a DVD player for $30-40 so when it dies, you don’t think too much about simply buying a new one. Trains are another story. The new high end trains have only a few thousand made and can cost hundreds of dollars (and more). But the legacy of postwar persists today and like those trains, it’s expected that the new digital trains will work for decades to come.
I was pulling apart an old CD boom box for parts and was impressed with how well it was made and how well it was put together. But it was the circuitry that finally failed. Regardless that it was a well made quality unit, it was something related to the circuit boards that went. Actually the DC motor inside still worked when I wired it up direct. It just seems to me the modern circuit boards and such just do not have the longevity we’d like.
I’m in large scale but I have fundemantally the same approach the Wallyworld does, I am a model RR luddite and proud of it. I run straight DC, manual Atlas track block controllers - no computer controlled sound effects, no DCC circuit boards, no tangle of wiring stuffing up the insides of my engines
Its not that I’m old fashioned, its just that as I read about all these wonderfull new features, I also read page after page after page of all the hastles installing or maintaining them can become. Some people spend more time making their engines work right than actually running them.
Since my indoor layout is small, I’ll keep my engines and layout as simple as I can, its so much less stressfull and more economical as I’m not spending hundreds of extra dollars just so I can push a button and get a sound effect.
If you have the time and patience to invest in all these fancy features then go for it, but please manufacturers do not make all these features standard thereby doubling the price of the engine. This is becoming a disturbing trend, Bachmann being the biggest offender here. There latest offering are whopingly expensive!
You said “Am I the only frugal iconoclast who is refusing to follow these trends toward greater complexity and planned obsolescence?”
I assumed you were asking a real question and not a rhetorical one. I gave you my personal feelings. Posting a philosophical and somewhat controversial post as you did is bound to bring opinions that agree and disagree. You’ll just have to deal with that. [:)]
I couldn’t agree more. As long as they could do it without increasing the price of the engines, that would be VERY cool. [tup] Actually, most of the MTH locos, with the exception of the very basic units are equipped with Proto 2. And many of the RailKing locos line are scale-size, so they fit right in with the Premier line. Just a little less detail. Lionel has installed command in some higher end basic sets like the Mikado breakdown set. Wish they would do that more often.
