The Ohio Senate has under consideration a bill which would require you to show ID if requested while, among other things, watching trains.
Quoted from today’s Columbus Dispatch story on Ohio Senate Bill 9.
“A person in or near an airport, train station, chemical plant, utility or ‘‘any other terrorist-sensitive site” to show identification when requested by law-enforcement or security personnel."
Dale
Is the second part of this statement “Ve haff ways of making you talk” ??? this sounds all to familiar does’nt it ??
Robin Williams suggested Iraq should have our Constitution because “we’re not using it”
Remember the Bill of Rights? The 4th amendment outlaws “unreasonable search and seizure” and that includes searching a person without “probable cause” to think evidence of a crime is present.
Americans used to brag that in this country the government couldn’t demand to see your identification papers. Currently a number of cases are in court trying to allow the government to stop you and demand your identification. If they can strip this protection from us, they will come back and use 9/11 as an excuse to search our cars and homes.
they already can, under present laws, they can get a secret warrent, signed by a federal judge, and bug or search your property without you ever knowing they did. All they have to do is show a link to you and any crimminal orginization, and this all was signed into law by Billy Boy Clinton before he left.
I vaguely remember reading about this. Demanding identification without probable cause was unconstitutional and still should be. But I can imagine a secret warrant sometimes is justifiable. I don’t know if this law properly restricts secret warrants but it should.
This also brings up the weakening of the Freedom of Information Act. Once an investigation is closed we should be able to see what information the government collected on us. Government secrecy hides corruption, incompetence, and abuse.
Exercise your rights! Contact your representative, have your friends and family contact theirs too. It’s your constitution!
I’m not sure I should post to a thread with “patriot” in the title after recent events on a related forum.
In Australia, we don’t have a bill of rights. We are basically guided by English “Common Law” as modified by legislation.
We do have a constitution, but I’m not sure that it addresses personal rights.
But the taking of rail photographs is getting harder in the cities.
Peter
That’s a nice thought Dan, but I think the fox is clearly in charge of the chickens.
As it turns out my congressman and one of my senators are firmly in the pocket of the White House, and have checked their brains at the door. They have no clue, nor do they care about what the voters have to say. They take their marching orders from W (who takes his from Carl Rove). The other senator (the good one) has just announced that he will not seek re election. Guess who wants his seat? My congressman!!! I want to vomit!!!
Yes, the great state of Minnesota is full of characters, and although I didn’t vote for him, I liked Jesse Ventura a lot better than either his predecessor or his successor. So, who is going to be running for senate against the congressman I so despise?### Al Franken!!![:0][:D] I kid you not!!!
By the way Steamer Fan, Clinton may have signed that bill, but the USA Patriot Act signed post 911goes much further to invade the privacy of individuals. It gives that secret court much more power. Be afraid, be very afraid.
We must watch what we say here…where we railfan…train numbers and details…they are taking notes on us taking notice. We could be charged with conspiracy! We are no longer Americans and railfans banning together and helping to do our civic duties. We must not trust anyone…everyone is suspect. I don’t have any problem with showing ID in these given circumstances however; with a criminal background associated with trains, railfanning could now get me locked up! I guess with all this hype, I will now have to railfan entirely by proxy. Trains Mag. and you. [soapbox]
Yet Bily Boy Clinton let 14 of the 15 11 Sept. '01 “perpertrators” (I don’t like politically correct “miltants” and G_d forbid I should use the word “terrorist” since I am not anti-Arab per se) into the USA without consular review or security check, just pick up your visa at a Ryadh credit card office by showing a Saudi identity card. (They may not have even checked with the Saudis to see if the card was forged or not!) Think about in whose interest Billy Boy had the State Department put this scheme into action, think about who was responsible for what the terrorists did,and then complain to me about the Amtrak subsidy?
More seriously. I live in Jerusalem and I know what it is to make sure I have identification with me at all times.
If you visit, keep your American Passport with you at all times. Not carrying it can get you into real problems. And if you want to take pictures of trains here, check with either the police office area where you want to photograph or better yet the authorities next to the Arlazoroff Steet Central Railroad Station (“Mercaz”) in Tel Aviv. You will get all the cooperation possible if you bring something like an NRHS or RRE or ERA card and tell them exactly what you want to do and why.
But then don’t try to do something else!
well were going to have to have a chat with our local reps.By the way one of them took our pic at the B&O caboose in deshler.
stay safe
Joe
[banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead]
It is nice to see that personal agendas (on both sides of the issue) haven’t gotten in the way of a rational interpretation of the act. If I see an officer approaching me while I am watching trains, I have my ID out before he even gets to me.
If that is what a constitutional-less society is like, I can live with it. Now, if told to leave public property for no apparent cause, that is another story . . . although no officer has yet told me to do that.
Gabe
Just another way for the cops across this country to be more POWER HUNGRY!
No hidden agendas here.
Big_Boy_4005.
I know how you feel about your reps. My congresman was at one time a spin Dr for Jack Kemp and Bill Barnett. I think he may have stopped working for them because they were too liberal.
Fortunately our Junior Senator is speaking up. He was the only Senator to vote against the Patriot Act, because he felt that it was far to great an attack on the Bill of Rights.
Jay
Personally…I want to see proper identification from those purporting to be law enforcement…there are too many want-to-be’s floating around.
Officers are required to properly identify themselves before taking action.
Gabe
Thanks Jay, I’m just afraid that the 911 political back lash is going to be with us for a while.
Every time I go into my bank, I am disgusted to see a sign waving the USA Patriot Act in my face. Basicly it gives them permission to suspect everyone, and refuse to do business with anyone they don’t like.
All of this security nonsense is going to create a real drag on our economy. Where once we had a balanced budget, we now have defecit spending in the name of security. We can’t fund domestic programs including Amtrak, but we can spend a trillion dollars on Iraq, Afghanistan and tsunami relief. The average taxpayer in this country is really getting screwed. First his rights and freedom are being erroded out from under him, and then he is being financially squeezed right out of the picture by big business.
We need campaign finance reform in order for the voice of the individual to regain any meaning. Under the current system, only big business gets what it wants from the government, namely our money. Our elected officials use their office to line their pockets. To hell with the people.
Didn’t Marie Antoinette say “let them eat cake”?
Our elected officials seem to have forgotten what happened to her.
WE NEED NEW BLOOD IN WASHINGTON!!!
[soapbox]Sorry for the rant guys.[soapbox]
If asked to show my i.d. I will comply. I will state what I am doing, watching trains. But If I am wrongly suspected of being up to no good, I only have 2 questions. Am I under arrest? And If so what are the charges? As simple as that. I learned this a long time ago the hard way.
As long as I’m not tresspasing, there is not much they can do (in theory). And if I am arrested it will all be setteled in the courtroom. I know this can be an expensive outcome, But I belive very strongly that it is my freedom that’s being violated. And I refuse to go down without a fight.
I could go off on the stupidity of “homeland security” , but I’m not going to. If I did I would be typing all day , And would most likley offend a lot of poeple on this forum that I don’t want to offend.
Power to the PEOPLE, not the government !!!
Your very last ststement is very true. But with the Government has a tendcy to way over do it. The government is not looking at going after the terror their to buisy going after the rights of every amercian in this country. It goes like this,**** on the terrorists where gona go and screw every americans rights. NO BULL ****,So much for being an ANERICAN!