I propose that we should reconize that Light Rail has fundentmental differences from Trolleys and Streetcars. For one todays light rail cars are heaver and can weigh in at 80,000 pounds as opposed to PCC operations that used lighter cars. Light Rail cars also operate on there own right of way and only use streets for its Downtown Portions and even then have exsclusive right of way. Trolleys on the other hand had rear end lights and operted in mixed auto traffic. I only know of one place that has mixed traffic and that is the Arbor Way line in Boston…The other systems uses Ped Plazas and have the right of way.
Light Rail cars are often articualated MU units were Trolleys ran in single units but sometimes had trailers.
Todays light rail cars can use Subway lines and share right of way with Heavy Rail and even Freight Operations …Streetcars almost always ran on there own right of way
Trolleys used a single pole and Light Rail uses Euro style Pantographs
Light Rail Systems use CTC and dispatch and Trolleys uses Operator controles by varrying the voltage to operate swithes.
Light Rail moters are often more powerfull and barring speed limits can run at 70 miles per hour
Light Rail Cars are Bi-Directional (Hence the elimination of the Loop at Van Aken in Shaker Hts)
Vancouver still uses electrically powered trolley buses that have two trolley poles going up to two trolley wires. I think I’ve seen them somewhere else recently, but I’m not sure. Maybe Philadelphia. They were really common in the mid-20th century.
The trolleys in Washington, DC, and Baltimore, MD, received electrical power through a blade-type device that stuck down into a slot in the street to make an electrical connection. However, I don’t know if that was a one-wire or two-wire connection.
The Washington, DC, Metrorail uses a third rail, not a pantograph. I don’t know whether or not you consider that one a light rail system.
The Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) in greater Boston used to use third rail in the tunnels and pantograph outdoors. I don’t know if they still do or whether or not you consider that light rail.
In my parent’s day the trolleys ran as far as 20 to 30 miles from downtown Boston. My town just paved over the old tracks, and we could see them when there was a ditch in the street.
Other trolley sites are Seattle, Cambridge,Mass. San Francisco, Phil.PA, and probably more, Vancouver has new trolleys, fast, cheap, quiet, non-pollute, etc, etc, only drawback is the 40 tons of wires above some intersections, dont try to beat one across the street.
Articulated streetcars were pioneered in 1910, I can think of a few examlpes used in Milwaukee beginning about 1917… Nothing new there.
2)Frieght trains USUALLY shared ROW with the streetcars , many cities made a point in the franchises that specifically prohibited freight trains from the city streets… nothing new there
3)Euro style pantographs were an option for US cars as well , remember that the FIRST streetcars were built and operated here in the US , all the US technology was based from the beginning (with the exception of the early Van Deopole system) on the tried and true trolley pole… nothing new here .
4)Powering or coasting through switches to divert traffic was pioneered in Illinios around 1911. Cars ran on timetables, no need for expensive CTC … nothing new here
5)Most conventional streetcar motors were 90 plus horsepower , geared for a moximum speed of about 45 mph , although some companies that ran suburban routes (think Philadelphia) ran in excess of 60 mph… nothing new here.
6)99% of US streetcars were double ended … nothing new here
We used to ride up behind them on our bicycles and pull the pole off the wire. One time a very athletic passenger took off after us, teaching us some new foul language, although that was not his intent. We barely got away.
Light rail could be considered an evolutionary step from the streetcars of the pre-WW2 and immediate postwar era. Perhaps the biggest difference is that newer light rail systems have less street running and more private right-of-way operation. Following from the operational differences, light rail cars and trains stop more at dedicated stations than at designated street corners and intersections.
The points made by Randy Stahl are all valid, the new systems have basically revived and upgraded a lot of older designs and ideas.
G’day, Y’all,
If they ever appoint me trolley czar here in Atlanta, the system I design will definitely have retro cars. I’d probably go to the Thomas School Bus Company and talk them into putting out a few original Perley Thomases.
Why? From what I read, systems which use old trolleys, whether Brills or PCCs, not only get the real commuter traffic but a whole lot of sightseers who want the experience that their parents or grandparents had riding the trolley. While the MARTA train is a nice thing for grandchildren to do with their grandparents, it isn’t like taking the New Orleans trolley. On MARTA, you are either over or under something, never at street level. That is much more efficient for long runs but MARTA isn’t that long. It should be but people in the burbs back in the 1960s were afraid that Negros would come to their communities. Of course now they are inundated with Hispanics in those same communities.
I bet that if two light rail vehicles, one with a European front, and another looking ancient with a round front in front of a clerestory roof, pulled up to a stop at the same time, more people would get in the old LRV than the newer one. The new ones just don’t have any personality. Just like the sale of anything, you’ve got to sell the dream. And the old ones hold the romance of the rails. Transportation consultants eschew such ideas, but look at the San Francisco F line. Up to 20,000 a day from 1,200 a day when it was a bus line.
Incidentally, California’s passenger rail will certainly get a big boost with the fire that burned the freeway.
There isn’t any reason why modern light rail or streetcar equipment cannot have a thoroughy historic appearance. And to my mind, some of the best looking equipment, even by today’s standards, were the lightweights that just preceeded the PCC car: Cincinnati curved-side lightweights, the C&LE and Indiana lightweight interurbans (Red Devils and Highspeeds), the Indianapolis Peter Witts, Third Avenue’s Broadway Huffliners, Brill Master Units and Bradley Automotives.
Again: definitions: streetcars, mostly on street operation, mostly lanes shared with automobiles, stops the order of 5 to 5 per mile, schedules speed including stops about 8 - fifteen mph., mostly single cars which may be articulated, or possibly one trailer. light rail, on-street operation possible but mostly or entirely private right of way (including reserved lanes which may be shared with busess on city streets), multiple unit operation possible and even usual, up to four or five car trains, stops the order of two to eight per mile, schedule speeds including stops between fifteen and forty-five mph. If connecting two towns or cities where both ends have comuters and where some through traffic exist, this can ALSO be called an intereurban. Heavy Rail or rapid transit: Train operation usual, high platforms and level boarding throughout, stops between one and four per mile. schedule speeds similar to light rail, but on-street operation extremely impractical (although there are special cases, especially in the past like CTA Lake Street and the Shipyard Railway during WWII). Heavy rail almost always allows passage between cars while moving, for crew if not also for the passengers. Atlanta’s system is considered heavy rail and this definition is independent of the actual weight of the cars.
Freight operation may exist over tracks of any of the above and does not alter the defnition.
Not exactly an accident, but it did create traffic havoc for a while!
Scene, Broadway at 176th St in Manhattan, 1955. Trolley tracks and center slot still in place, but probably out of service. Our heroes appeared, one car towing another with a chain wrapped around both bumpers. When the two vehicles stopped (red light) the slack in the chain slipped into the slot - and stuck! Ten minutes later they were still there, yanking on the chain and fending off the displeasure of other drivers. At that point my buddy and I decided that the entertainment value of the incident had run its course, so we left.
The Boston Blue Line uses third rail underground and cat. outside.
I have seen the electric bus you were talking about in Vancouver. There is also one in Boston; the Silver Line.
I rode on the Green Line recently, and they are on their own right of way except for a short portion near Resevuar (pardon my spelling, I don’t know how to spell it right)
At 76th and Broadway, up to the last day of normal operation, 8 June l947, one would have seen the “K” for Kingsbridge, the bridge actually located at 5th and Broadway linking Manhattan ot mainland Ameerica, the first bridge to Manhattan, othewise known as the 5th St. Amsterdam Avenue and Broadway line (using St. Nicholus Ave. as the link between Amsterdam Ave. and Broadway, as an operating streetcar line without trolley poles. This and one twentyfifth Crosstown “X” were the last Manhattan streetcar lines, although lines from Brooklyn over the Brooklyn Bridge and from the Bronx mostly on crosstown streets, continued to enter Manhattan for about a year longer. The i49th Crosstown continued to use conduit on l45th in Manhattan until August. Power was also kept on from 65th and Third Avernue all they up to KIngsbridge Barn and the 5th Street “Y” at Broadway, because cars and 65th Street were having poles applied for Bronx service and moved there on their own wheels.
In the winter, sometimes tire chains got caught in the conuit, and some real sparks and fireworks resulted, with the line sometimes tied up.