As I’ve been building my layout I’ve also been gathering some rolling stock and loco’s, lot’s of loco’s. So anyhow, I got a hold of two old Atheran GP-9’s (Cause their my favorite) and I try to run them, but they just don’t seem to have any umph!! Sure they start out REALLY slow, but even at full throttle they don’t seem to really go. Not that I need them to fly around the layout at 100 mph, but a little more get up and go wouldn’t hurt them. I had to re-motor one of them because a half a lap or two around it would just die out and the motor would be really hot. So anyhow, even after replacing the motor in the one and disassembling them both for a thorough cleaning they still don’t seem to run well. And you can forget about running them both at the same time. So I’m thinking it’s my power supply.
Here’s my question:
I think I have an MRC 1300? Does that sound right? Should I hook up somekind of power booster to what I have or should I look for an controller that really puts out the juice? I have one other Atheran, a GP38-2, it’s a little newer and it runs much better. I’m running HO with Block wiring. What do you all suggest? I’m open to getting a new dual controller to run mulitiple CABS and I figured I’d use the one I have now run ACC’s and maybe control my coal mine or industrial blocks. What should I look for for Output on a controller? Did I hear somewhere that there’s a guide or a book that tells you how to boost the performance of your Atheran Loco’s?
Is there anything I missed? All advice is appreciated.
Have you ever serviced the Athearns, like taking apart the trucks and inspecting?
Are you pulling allot of freight?
The MRC 1300 and 1370 are really good modest priced packs, they dont have the features of the newer ones but are really good for their price. It almost sounds like you have some sort of bind in the gearing or just a bad motor. A newer pack would be wise, but you should check out the GP-9’s for binding, they could just be dry though and need a good lube job.
How old is old? I had some old Athearns from the early 1960’s. Some were belt-drive, others gear drive. They would all run, with some effort, but only one was good enough to keep in service.
I looked around online and found a pair of brand new, still in the box Proto 2000 Geeps, 40 bucks a piece. I had to add my own decoders, but for that price I couldn’t have upgraded the old ones, and the new models were just so much nicer to look at, besides.
I took the guts out of my old engines, replaced the couplers and now I run them as dummies.
I’m really not sure how much track I have. I do know that I have enough feeders in on it now especially with the blocks installed. I have a 4x8 table with a 44"x60" table attached in an L fashion. Here’s a pic:
I have taken them apart to clean the wheels and the armature of the motor, but I’m not exactly sure what to inspect. I even cleaned out where the axles sit in the trucks. These are freightless loco’s running. Maybe they do need some lube and tweeking, I just need some pointers.
If you replaced the motor with a can motor, it should be running good.
Newer power packs don’t deliver as much power as older ones, simply because since can motors became standard in the eighties, you don’t need as much power to run an engine. It could be your power pack just isn’t delivering enough power for these old powerhogs. [:)]
They’re not quite that old. Let’s say, maybe last generation. They have the center rubber mounted motors with what looks like steel flywheels, It has the clips on the motor that get power through the clip on bar from the trucks. I really hate to give up on these engines, but then again if I can’t get them to do what I want them to do what’s the sense. The Conrail Shell is really really nice and has great detail. The other is has a good shell, just needs new decals. Will lubrication make that much difference, because the gears are not goopy or wet at all for that matter.
If you do a web search I am sure there are several sources that have How To’s on tuning up old Athearns. when I did the ones I used to own I completely dissassembled the trucks and cleaned everything real well. I also inspected each part for burrs or mold flash. At some time I even resorted to chamfiring the edges on all holes in gears slightly. After the clean and inspect routine i would reassemble everything with a small drop of lube on all moving parts. This helped the most of anything I did. Once I had the trucks back together I turned my attention to the motors. I Cleaned the armature with a Q-tp and alcohol as well as the bushings the shafts ran in. A small drop of oil on each bushing and back into the frame it went. The last part to get lubed was the drive shafts after an inspection for burrs. As old as these engines might be I think following the lube procedure will help a lot. There are some guys who do some work on the motors to help improve performance. One guy removes the brush springs and removes a section from them so the brush does not drag too hard on the motor. He claims this helps. I have not tried it as I have no Athearn locos on my layout anymore accept for three GP38-2’s that have A-line motors in them.
Here’s an overhead shot illustrating Midnight’s point:
(You can get a better view by clicking on the image.) The Geep on the left is one of my golden oldies, a belt-drive Milwaukee that’s been neutered and now runs as an “honorary” dummy engine. The Geep on the right is a P2K with prototypical measurements.
Of course, if the P2K takes after its owner, it’s going to be just as fat as the other one in another 40 or 50 years. [(-D]
Thanks Mr. B, yeah, they both have the wider body to them, but I’m not too worried about that right now. I’d just like them to run smoother and stronger. It’s almost like they’re too heavy to pull their own weight. Now the one I re-motored it runs pretty well, the other one…wellllllllll…it sounds like a tin can running around the track. I’m going to search for some guides and I got a link too to follow to help me tune these up a bit. I’ll let you know how I make out.
Those old geeps seem to have a cult following…I know several modelers that buys every one they can find…The reason being these geeps will run with any BB locomotive-nothing like seeing a F7A,GP7,GP7,F7A or GP7,GP35,GP35 GP7 or any combination there of on the point of a long freight.Those may be old fashion locomotives but,still a sight to behold…
From the sound of things you might have the older black ring magnet motor with the cast flywheels. The older motors require more current to get them moving. A repower with a new model Athearn motor and brass flywheels will help.
The power pack is another part of the problem. Your pack has a low amp rating. Probably about .8 amps. Get the MRC Tech 4 260 or some other pack with a 2 amp capacity. I’m in DC and use some MRC Throttle Pack 500’s the amp rating is 2.3 on them.
“Tin can” tells me “Rattle” and that tells me that there may be a loose bearing or bent shaft somewhere. Loose bearings tend to squeal cheecheecheecheeeee like a horde of angry monkeys. Bent shafts are more of a jackhammer noise.
Disconnect the universal shafts and let the motor run by itself. It should go “mmmmmmmmm” or “zzzzzzzz”. Any single letter will do. If you start getting syllables there is something wrong. Keep hooking things up until you discover a problem. Spin the motor by hand. It should turn freely. Remove the worms and try to turn the gears.
The RP 1300 pack is about 7 VA, so at best it delivers much less than an amp. I really think this is absurdly weak, though it does give nice control for a cheapie. What it’s meant to do is replace 1 trainset pack and run circles around it, and that it does very well.
The symptoms you describe (hot running, low power, high current draw) are indicative of weakened motor magnets. The easiest and quickest fix is re-motoring, either with a can motor and new flywheels, or a direct replacement with another Athearn Blue-Box motor. If you’re really feeling froggy, though, you could replace the magnets with neodymium iron-boron magnets. These super-magnets are readily available on eBay, and elsewhere on the net - google “NDFeB Magnets”. I replaced the magnet in an ancient Athearn gear-driven RDC (metal body), and it now runs great!
There is another option if you purchased these used. Someone may have installed an Ernst transmission in them to reduce the top end speed. this consisted of a couple of extra gears that dropped into the gear tower in each truck and made the engine rpms increase while wheel revoultions decreased to give better operating charachteristics. If that is not the case you could also check brush tension against the commutator as that can sometines slow one down also.
Interesting. What kind of NdFeB magnet did you use (shape etc.) and where did you get it? I have what I think is an old Athearn motor of the same type on an Atlas TT with a very weak magnet.
Interesting. What kind of NdFeB magnet did you use (shape etc.) and where did you get it? I have what I think is an old Athearn motor of the same type on an Atlas TT with a very weak magnet.
I have a couple of old Athearn F units that did the same thing you describe your Geeps as doing. They’d run for a little while (never very fast, even on full power) and slowly grind to a stop. I replaced the motors in both units and did a regearing on them as well. Now they run as well as any of my other Athearns.
