In an old Kalmbach book there was a cartoon, the person is asking the operator, if the mill had refused his load because he was returning full gondolas. I loaned that book and now I can’t remember the title, I think it was " Introduction to Model Railrading", it’s probably from the 70’s. I’m building a new r/r and want to incorporate his method of returning cars uunseen, does anyone remember the title, or the method, it’s probably real simple, but it escapes me? Thanks Rick
Are you sure it was gondolas? I think it might have been ore cars.
The cartoon I’m looking at says:
“How come you’re putting those cars of ore back into the mine, Joe? Didn’t the boys down at the steel mill want the stuff after all?”
And the book is Track Planning For Realistic Operation by John Armstrong.
The idea shown was basically a return loop that sort of had a passing siding along its circumference. The passing siding was split in two by a scenic divider. One end of the divider had, in the example, an empties in loading track and a loads out track. The other end had, of course, the empties out track and the loads in track.
Regards
That was “Track Planning for Realistic Operation” by John Armstrong. The topic was The open-top empty/load problem.
Jim
That idea has never appealed to me except for industrial trams because it is hard to create believable scenes at either loading and unloading sites. Also, unless there is great distance by track between them, it is unsatisfying to move a load a short distance to where it is unloaded. Imagining the source or destination is off the layout doesn’t “break the spell of believability” like the “empties in, loads” out concept will often do. Further, it dictates the track route which may be difficult to accomplish without significant compromise.
Mark
thank you,
I was going to use it for a logging railroad, 6 to 12 feet between logging camp and saw mill, then more distance between sawmill and wharf, I’ll get a copy from Abe books but seems it’ll be untenable, double every thing, most hidden, too much space, thanks for your help every one.
I am trying a modification of the “loads in, empties out” for my logging railroad.
I have the following logging traffic patterns:
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empty log at cars at landing, become loads bound for mill
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mill accepts loaded log cars, returns empties to landing
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mill needs empty lumber cars, loads depart for dock (lumber car can be flats, gons, boxcars depending on mill output and era)
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dock receives loaded lumber cars, lumber transferred to ship, empties return to mill
Since I have limited space to model the mill, I am running 2 spurs behind the log pond and mill. The front spur is for loaded and empty log cars, the rear spur is for empty and loaded lumber cars. Both spurs continue into a 4 track traverser that is out of sight. Each spur has 2 tracks on the traverser. In my case the traverser and spurs are set up for strings of 2 cars, but it certainly could be more.
Before an operating session the following staging is performed. A string of loaded log cars is placed on the landing spur. A string of empty lumber cars is placed at the dock. The offset traverser tracks (2) have a string of empty log cars and a string of loaded lumber cars.
Operations procede:
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a string of loaded cars is taken from the landing to the mill. The loaded cars pass by the log dump and on to the empty front spur traverser track. The traverser is moved to align the offset track, and the empty log cars are pulled and then taken to the landing.
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the empty lumber cars arrive from the dock, and pushed on to the empty rear spur traverser track. The traverser is moved to align the offset track, and the loaded lumber cars are pulled a
I actually delivered empty hoppers and gon to my gravel pit and loaded them with loose ballast. Of course, on a small layout with only a few cars…
also dropped in preglued poles and pilings at the creosote treating plant. Held them on with a very light touch of rubber cement, the kind used in offices, NOT “Goo”.
Loaded pulpwood loads on a pulpwood siding. I have only scratchbuilt two unique-design sulphur gondolas, need a fleet or 8 or 10 for my Island Seaport layout based on Galveston. Sulphur is messy so I simulate it with yellow dry powder tempera and foam inserts. Inconspicuous hooks for pulling the loads out after delivered to the sulphur terminal dock.
I think this will be manageable.
My larger colliery will be developed with both ‘empties in, loads out’ (unit trains, no less) and a live-loading capability. The ‘loads out’ will arrive in the narrow valley beyond the loadout on a train elevator - the other end of which is connected to designated trackage in the netherworld. There’s no ‘straight through the viewblock’ exchange; in fact the loaded unit changes engines four times (as does the empty.)
The only reason that the track route didn’t require major compromise on my part is that I didn’t make any attempt to model the end user. The loaded unit follows its catenary motor into the tunnel leading (eventually) to the port where it’s loaded into coasters - actually a dedicated scale kilometer or so of hidden track terminating at that train elevator.
Live loads will be slightly more of a nuisance. They will be routed to the cassette dock, then loaded on one cassette that’s specifically designed (wider than standard, with an off-center track) to allow the Great Hand of God to dump them. After the empties are sent back to the layout the cassette is upended over the container that will be used to return the coal (but not the cars) to the mine. (The loose load cars are in general service, and are just as likely to be spotted for a load of logs or reloaded with crated machinery.)
I unload my hoppers at the coal dealer
Those mty hoppers goes to staging, from staging to harbor
and to other staging. In the fourth session the go to the coal dealer or other customers. An interchange e.g.
Here you see my cc&wb howto.
Wolfgang
Thank you all for your info, it’s all intersting, now if I can figure out how to download it I’ll bedet, Thanks Rick
Several track plans have incorporated this over the years for coal, pulpwood or most any open top commodity. The Clinchfield series from the 70s did one of the biggest discussions of it I recall. I actually used it on one layout, except, like someone else mentioned, I didn’t try to do both the source and customer. In my case I modeled the mine and on the other end, rather than the power plant, the train slipped into staging, which circled back to the mine behind the scenes. It used the duplicate train set concept and was fairly successful. I don’t think many layouts are large enough to do the mine to power plant loop, though the mine to staging or staging to power plant (substitute pulpwood, woodchips, paper mill, or whatever) can work.
That said, I’ve moved away from the concept in my last few layout mostly because of a change of focus toward local switching to a small town.