Gentlemen,
I’ve recently renewed my interest in model trains after a 30 year absence and I’m wondering if I should blow my cash on several proto 2k diesels as I re-enter the sport? PRR post war era is my area of interest and after a few weeks of studying the Internet there are many Proto 2k diesels of the right era, PRR, EL, etc…and they look good, detailed, accurate…at least to my old eyes…so, I’m hoping some of you more experienced folks will share yr opinions? Im not ready to jump into DCC yet so that isn’t a factor to me at this point. So hoping before I load up the yard with these “bargains” you guys will enlighten me!
Thanks and happy trails…Cheers!
The first run of P2K PAs had a very high amp draw motor. Beware of those if installing a decoder, as it will take a high amp draw to work. The motor is sort of funky, too, compared to later runs. It’ll run on DC OK, but people tend to tolerate that, rather than enjoy it.
Before you put any older P2Ks in service, pull the gearbox covers and check the grease. It tends to harden over time. The factory often over-lubed them, too, so it can be a mess that needs cleaned out and replaced with fresh plastic compatible lube.
A large part of my diesel fleet is older Proto2000 locos, most bought at bargin prices. They all run great and look great.
You may get a few with cracked gears, that is easily fixed with inexpensive replacement parts. A search of this board will provide more reading on the “cracked gear” issue than you will want to read, but just the trust that it is simple and inexpensive to fix if you run arcross any with that problem.
Older ones did have higher current motors, but I think that also has to do with the level of decoder you select if installing DCC.
The early GP7’s had a quriky constant lighting circuit, you may want to rewire them if you get any.
I have PA’s, FA’s, GP’s, BL2’s, E8’s, SD7’s, S1’s, in all ranges of production from the earliest to fairly recent - they are all great.
Sheldon
Welcome Paul.
You will get many of the same responses here, and like Sheldon wrote, researching the net will yield more results.
I have many older protos and they are fine locomotives. P2K PRR’s come in GP7,9, & 30; SD7 (maybe SD9 too), SW9, S1, and S3. I don’t know about F units or PA’s but probably so. I think EL’s come in SW9, SW8, and GP 7 or 9.
Others here may know of more.
P2K GP units have cracked axles gears from the factory, but this issue is old news and replacements axles are cheap and repairs are easy. The S, SD, and SW series have a different truck design and don’t suffer that problem. They also tend to run smoother than the GP’s, but the GP’s do well also with a bit of breaking in. Some report constant poor performance, which I attribute to bad luck or something else, since I have never owned a bad one in the nearly 3 dozen I’ve owned over the years.
Most P2K’s have too much dried up grease in the trucks and should be disassembled and cleaned. Another easy fix.
Some don’t like the circuit board, as it causes the locomotives to run slower than other brands, which is important when coupling them together with other brands to run in tandem (MU). Those who run DCC do not like the circuit boards for other reasons. I run DC and actually prefer the circuit boards, since it causes the lights to shine brightly before the engine moves, unlike some other brands. I don’t MU with other brands…
The most common vintages are likley not to be found in hobby shops anymore, and come in a 2 part bluish box. You should be able to bid on used, like new pre-owned, or even new-in-box, off of auction sites at reasonable prices since LifeLike mass produced their locomotives back in the day. Walthers/Proto have released recent runs of SD7’s and SW’s in PRR I believe, and you should find them at hobby shops at…uh… a bit of a price increase.
Just to clarify, I was only refering to the earliest GP7’s with the all diode constant lighting - it slows the locos even slower tthan other Proto2000 locos. I leave the factory circuit boards in all my other Proto2000 locos, but install a different constant lighting circuit in those early GP7’s. I too run DC.
Sheldon
As I recall the first Protos were packaged in brown boxes and those are more likely the ones that have high draw. The blue boxed version were less likely to have high draw(although not totally) and I have put several Soundtraxx decoders in them–removing completely the OEM circuit board. The cracked gears used to be easy to fix by ordering spares from Walthers. However I have heard they are no longer available and that some have used Athearn gears as a replacement. You may want to confirm the Athearn availability and substitutability. BTW, none of my E or F units had cracked gears, only the GP units.
I really like the big flywheels in those E and F units and the heavy weight. They are a great runner. There is a decent interior and figures which can be painted as well.
Richard
Guys, Thank you all for your kind and generous insights. Really appreciate it. I’m going to take the plunge and pick up some of the FA’s, PA’s and switchers. I’ll steer clear of the GP’s for now…sounds like with a little tweaking they will be okay. I get such pleasure out of these damned trains my kids think I’m insane! Well, I’m going to to turn my grandson into a Pennsy fan this summer. Paul
To repair P2K cracked gears, use Athearn part # 60024, Loco Drive Axle Gear – SD40-2.
Never mind the stuff about it being for a SD loco, it works for the B-B trucked P2K gears just fine. They come in a pack of six. Pull the gear cover off the bottom of the truck, pick out the axles with cracked gears (they’re visible in most cases or just look for the ones that twist easily), twist the half axles apart to extract the cracked gear, press the half axles back together with the 60024 gear in place to correct gauge, drop back in and replace the gear cover. Takes about 3 minutes to do all four axles once you get the hang of it – if you’re working slow.
Sheldon,
I’m pretty cerain the GP7’s did not have the diode only light circuit. I believe the diode only circuit was found in the brown/gold box first runs of Proto’s. It was the first run GP18 and probably brown/gold box vintages of PA’s and E units that had the diode cluster, sort of taped to the top of the weight. Maybe you replaced the circuits in one of those. GP7’s only came in the bluish box, and unless they were diodes-only fixed to a plastic board, which is possible since I haven’t looked at my GP7’s that closely, I believe all vintages of GP7’s had modern circuit boards.
Details that may be a bit off of the OP’s point.
I have six Proto 2K locomotives, Alco FA’s and EMD E8’s. Good engines, look good and run good. I’m very happy with them. No problems whatsoever.
I have six of them that do, I can post picture if you like = early blue box GP7’s w
I have more P2K locos than any other one brand - they all run great. Cracked gears is no big deal, teh Athearn 60024 si readily available and it takes a couple of minutes to swap them out. Several of mine are used at club shows and run many many hours, and I’ve never had a problem, they just keep on chugging.
The only bad thing on the old P2K locos are the really junk plastic couplers they used. Kadee’s drop right in and you’ll never have a problem.
–Randy
Paul, if you can find GP’s don’t be afraid of buying them. They are great running loco’s and the cracked gear issue is a simple fix. I don’t even know how many I have, over twenty for sure and they are some of my favorite loco’s. The FA’s had the same cracked gear issue also.
I have approximately 20 P2K diesels. I’ve been fortunate in having been able to purchase several of them “new in the box” on Ebay. I have GP9s, E-units, and an SD9. I like the detailing and dimensions.
Definitely clean out the old grease as you’ll notice an improvement in performance. You can spray the gear box and gears with an electric cleaning product like CRC or flush with 71% isopropyl alcohol.
The E-units: My favorites. Heavy like bricks and will pull long trains at speed. Some modelers have complained about the E7 and E8 nose contour not being accurate, which is true. You can see the difference if you compare the old P2K E-units with the newer released “Walthers” P2K E units. However, some modelers like myself can live with the discrepancy.
The older units have a higher gear ratio and can run at 90 scale miles per hour (of course most of us don’t push them at that speed unless the straight section of the mainline is a long one).
All of mine will receive DCC, with the E-units and a few select hood units also getting sound (QSI Titan, or LokSound ESU).
[quote user=“ATLANTIC CENTRAL”]
Doughless:
ATLANTIC CENTRAL:
Doughless:
Some don’t like the circuit board, as it causes the locomotives to run slower than other brands, which is important when coupling them together with other brands to run in tandem (MU). Those who run DCC do not like the circuit boards for other reasons. I run DC and actually prefer the circuit boards, since it causes the lights to shine brightly before the engine moves, unlike some other brands. I don’t MU with other brands…
Just to clarify, I was only refering to the earliest GP7’s with the all diode constant lighting - it slows the locos even slower tthan other Proto2000 locos. I leave the factory circuit boards in all my other Proto2000 locos, but install a different constant lighting circuit in those early GP7’s. I too run DC.
Sheldon
Sheldon,
I’m pretty cerain the GP7’s did not have the diode only light circuit. I believe the diode only circuit was found in the brown/gold box first runs of Proto’s. It was the first run GP18 and probably brown/gold box vintages of PA’s and E units that had the diode cluster, sort of taped to the top of the weight. Maybe you replaced the circuits in one of those. GP7’s only came in the bluish box, and unless they were diodes-only fixed to a plastic board, which is possible since I haven’t looked at my GP7’s that closely, I believe all vintages of GP7’s had modern circuit boards.
Details