Sorry for the idiotic-sounding subject line, but it does kind of reflect my question/problem. I’ve been researching different scales for months now to find the one I want to use for my layout. I thought I’d found it with On30 because it seemed like it had so much to offer–O scale structures and figures so I can detail scenes, which I like to do, but HO track and narrow gauge equipment to save space. I even bought a Bachmann On30 set and like it. But here’s my dilemma–While I like the looks of some logging and mining railroads, that wouldn’t be my focus. And truth be told, the looks of some of the equipment like Shays and Climaxes doesn’t do much for me. I’d like to run some longer freight and passenger trains through cities and other scenes, not just in logging country. And while On30 seems to be the scale of “the mad kitbasher,” that ain’t me!
OK, now the question! [:-^] RIght now, all the ready to run stuff available seems pretty limited–a few shorty passenger cars, freight cars, and tiny engines. Is there any chance that other types of equipment will be offered in the future, or would that be stupid because you wouldn’t see any other kind of equipment on a narrow gauge railroad? And for perhaps an even dumber question, would it be possible to take some shortish O scale rolling stock and replace the trucks with HO trucks to run on the HO/On30 track?
If you’ve stayed awake through this and have any ideas, I’d appreciate the info! Thanks,
Peter
Well, Pete–you chose “Narrow” gauge, first of all. But I don’t think there’s any law that says narrow-gauge equipment has to all look as if it just got rescued from a Western Movie. Metre (narrow) gauge railroads in Europe (especially Switzerland) use very modern equipment, and the White Pass and Yukon was using fairly modern diesels before it became a tourist line. And let’s face it, it’s YOUR railroad, so you can do practically anything you want with it, right? I certainly could see a ‘modern’ narrow-gauge line. After all, the reason for the narrower gauge in the first place was to build railroads where standard gauge roads just wouldn’t fit or were prohibitively expensive to build. That doesn’t mean that your narrow-gauge railroad couldn’t evolve with the times. I’d go for it, if I were you–if you want to use diesels and more modern equipment, well the basics are there in HO gauge diesel mechanisms–it’s just a matter of ‘scratch’ building a chassis to fit. I really think you’ve opened up some possibilities with your query. what I’d do is study some of the metre-guage lines in europe: Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and let your imagination go to work on an American counterpart. Frankly, I’d go for it, if I were you. But one thing–since you have chosen On30, I think you’ll have to become the “Mad Kitbasher”. Actually, it’s fun, once you get used to it.
Tom[:D][:D]
Thanks for the reply, Tom. Actually, I love European narrow gauge trains like you mentioned. I’ve been lucky enough to take many train rides on them in the Swiss Alps. But I really wasn’t kidding about the kitbashing/scratchbuilding part: If I attempted anything like that I’d probably bleed to death from a hundred little #10 blade cuts! But I’m intrigued by your idea–Do you know of any European narrow gauge RTR equipment that would work? Or, since it is HO track, could I use an HO locomotive? Or would that look really weir
Also look for On2½, which is what On30 is often called in Europe. Peco has a line of On2½ track, same guage as HO, but tie length and spacing appropriate for O scale narrow guage rather than HO standard guage.
Thanks. Do you know anything about some of the other modeling gauges in Europe? I’ve seen HOe and HOm, for example. Do you know what those would be equivalent to in the US?
I don’t enow of any modern models available in On30 or any other scale narrow gauge.
There are more modern prototypes, however. For instance an article about the FC Huancato-Huancavelica (Peru) in Contintental Model (Jan 05) has photos of 3ft gauge MRL RSD39’s (ALCO type DL535B) which were built in 1963. The photos are from 1997. One photo shows a narrow gauge and standard gauge RSD39 next to each other on their respective tracks. The locos are designed to be easily converted to operate on either gauge as needed.
Pete–re: European HO–I’m afraid that it would look pretty out of scale–remember European locomotives and equipment are somewhat smaller than their American counterparts. I’ve got a Swiss Crocodile that I run occasonally on my own HO layout just for fun (and the fact that I think they’re an incredibly handsome locomotive), outfitted with Kadees on one end. Even as ‘big’ as that loco is–and it was one of the largest electric locos ever run on Switzerland’s Gottard Pass line–it’s pretty dwarfed even by a US prototype 40’ reefer! However, I’d take Nigel’s advice from his post–do some investigating and see what European O2-1/2 has to offer. You might find some neat stuff (maybe even a Crocodile!). Good luck. I have a soft spot for those Alpine meter-gauge railroads myself–rode one in Austria and one to Zermatt in Switzerland. I was told by a Swiss railroader–tongue in cheek–that God created the Alps so that the Swiss could run railroads over them.
Tom[:D][:D]
Actually On30 or On2½ are called Oe or O-16.5 in Europe. The scale is slightly different on the British islands its 1:43.5 and in the rest of Europe its 1:45. That “e” in Oe and HOe refers to the fact that the Eggerbahn brothers introduced a line of HO equipment that where running on N-scale track in the sixties. HOm is representing HO equipment running on TT-scale track (1:120) or 12mm gauge, that “m” refers to 1 meter gauge track (87 x 12 = 1m). You can find nice Swizz narrow gauge equipment made by Bemo, but these are mostly made in HOm. If you want some smaller O-scale equipment that fits togheter with your Bachmann equipment, Fleischmann have European looking cars and locos.
Here you can see from left to right. HOe Roco 0-6-0 locomotive running on Peco HOe/HOn30 track. HO loco on Peco HO-track. Bachman On30 Shay loco on Peco Oe/O-16.5/On30 track.
In the Canadian province of Newfoundland the railway there (Canadian National) used to be 42" gauge. Most of their equipment was suitably sized for the narrower gauge, but they did run some standard gauge freight cars on the line. The cars would come from the mainland on rail car ferries and then would have narrow gauge trucks put under them so they could be delivered to their destination. The process worked in reverse on their way back. That might be a possibility - running smaller standard gauge equipment with narrow gauge trucks.
I think this was also done on the East Broad Top in the U.S. They were 3 foot gauge I believe.
I tried to use HO as narrow gauge, all you have to do is increase the size of EVERYTHING else on the layout to narrow gauge scale (no small task) other forum members answered with very scientific scale responses and questioned the optical trueness of the track, many responses later(and welcomed) I decided to proceed with a logging layout but using standard gauge equipment, and there were lots of these in British Columbia, I no longer think along the lines of Hon3, H2On3, HO21/2, OOn3.25 etc etc etc. have fun !
One thing to consider if you want to model a city: Narrow-gauge locomotives were often used as dock freight haulers! Before industrial tractors and forklifts, narrow-gauge locomotives were used to shuttle freight between dockyard areas. Often, this was the other end of the line of a logging or mining railroad–rather than modeling the tree-felling to lumber mill end, you’re representing the mill-to-market end. This was a common mode in the Northwest, where there were few through rail connections and shipping from local industries was done via Pacific ports.
Many such lines also served as common carriers, carrying boxcars of freight between docks and local industries, as well as carrying passengers to and fro.
In terms of equipment–Generally, no, you’re not going to see streamliners, lightweight stainless-steel passenger cars, or other modern/heavy-duty equipment on a narrow gauge line. Smaller rod engines (Moguls and Americans) would abound, as well as the inevitable 0-4-0’s for the actual dock/switching work. Shorter passenger cars, of the older all-wood/clerestory roof design, would be the rule.
Converting O-scale equipment, even smaller stuff, to narrow gauge is not all that feasible–such equipment would be very, very top-heavy and unstable. I tried comparing some old “shorty” HO scale boxcars to a narrow-gauge D&RGW pattern boxcar and found that even the shortest old-timer HO boxcar dwarfed its narrow-gauge equivalent.
I am working with On30 narrow guage (Rocky Mountain) but plan to eventually have an alternate set of buldings and rolling stock at HO scale for some flexibiltiy to go to more modern times wth diesels, 1950’s buildngs etc . There will be some trade offs in scenery but I tiink it will work if I am not hung up about treee size, roadside details or track/tie details. I too like the modeling size of On30 for narrow guage realism. What have you decided? Good Luck
You could do what I’m planning: dual-gauge standard and 30" in O scale. I will need to hand lay it, but my intent is to run my 2-rail O, my 3-rail O, and my wife’s On30 (given sufficiently complicated wiring).
I can confidently predict that you will never see modern-era narrow gauge American equipment for On30 or any other narrow-gauge scale, simply because modern American railroads don’t use narrow gauge.
It’s kind of like looking for a model of a 1995 Hupmobile or REO–you won’t find them, because they don’t exist. Building a model of what a 1995 REO “Speed-Wagon” might have looked like could be a fun exercise for the creative scratchbuilder, but you’ll never see it on a store shelf.
Although for many scratchbuilders, that’s half the fun!
About converting “shortish” O scale equipment: It was done, occasionally, so feel free to try, but in general, probably not. For starters, HO trucks will be the wrong size–the wheels too small, the trucks too lightweight. On30 trucks would be the trucks to use. But that O scale boxcar, even a “shorty” one, will be very large, top-heavy and bulky by narrow-gauge standards.
I tried a similar trick–using IHC 30-foot wooden boxcars on HOn3 trucks–but they just looked huge and ungainly compared to an HOn3 boxcar.
Narrow gauge roads weren’t all small time logging or mining, nor were they all in Colorado. In fact, before WWI, the vast majority of narrow gauge trackage was east of the mississippi. At one point in the late 1880s, thewre was a plan to make a central transcontinental railroad, all on 3-foot gauge lines. It never went anywhere, but you COULD ride from PA to IL on all-narrow trackage until right before WWI.
Don’t like shays and 0-4-2T’s? How about 4-6-0s pulling 32 foot boxcars and gondolas through Indiana cornfields? Or 4-4-0s pulling 60-foot passenger cars through the Illinois natural gas fields? And for real mainline action, you can’t beat the EBT, 2-8-2s, and 40 car strings of coal hoppers!
Somebody mentioned the Huancayo and Huancavelica, but that’s only one of your potential Latin American choices: in a lot of Latin American countries, the standard gauge WAS narrow: El Salvador and Guatemala, for example, shared (and share) a 3 foot gauge system, while Ecuador has a decrepit but charming 42" gauge system that manages to include two generations of diesels (1950s Alcos and 1990s Alsthoms) and steam engines ranging from 1900-era Moguls to the last narrow gauge consolidation built in the US. It even includes such eccentricities as open-platform wooden coaches running on turn-of-the-century trucks refitted with roller bearings.
Here in Minnesota we had several ‘common carrier’ 3’ lines that ran passenger and general freights in southeastern Minnesota. These eventually ended up being owned by the Milwaukee Road, some similar Milw narrow guage lines survived just ‘south of the border’ in Iowa and across the Mississippi River in Wisconsin until the 1930’s.
The Newfie lines used diesels in the ‘modern’ CN black and red paint scheme by the way !!
Another thought is the White Pass and Yukon in Alaska - used some former DRGW (or RGS??) steam engines, but later ran (and still run) 3’ guage diesel locos.
