One man crews , productivity, and railroad wanting to be trucks.

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

A s a former railroad bridge operator and trackman i can say there is alot of waste in railroading.That being said even if you get automated crew less trains they aint trucks.Railroads should stop trying to compete with trucks that are manned by people on cocaine, no -doze and coffee. Railroads are for heavy business not carload.railroads have cut at least 200 000 jobs and they still dont make that much profit.Railroads are big conveyer belts for coal, grain. steel and intermodel. I guess my point is do what you do well and dont try to be a truck.

P S unions will try to screw other unions.Engineers dont like conductors and Trackmen dont like foremans. it is dog eat dog and always will be.

2

Obviously, you’re not afraid of angering truckers and union workers with your narrow-minded generalizations. I’ll leave your statement that “[railroads] still dont make that much profit” for someone else to refute.

3

Savnatoman. An OTR driver at anytime can be called in for a drug test even in the middle of the night or while they are at home resting. I know since I had that happen to me more than once. 99% of the drivers on the road in the trucking industry are hard running and they run legal. Yes in any group there are bad apples I know. But do not attack one indutry that is responsible for keeping this countries economy going. Lets see if you can name one thing that a truck had NO part in getting to your house. The one thing that trucks do not carry is the air we breathe so that one is out. In fact lets see if anyone can name anything that a truck did not bring to you.

4

No doubt trucks are important. Also no doubt there are a LOT of trucks out there. That makes that one percent of bad dfrivers a LOT more than you think (and BTW, I don’t for a minute believe it is limited to only 1% especially when you add in the large number of fly by night trucking and drayage firms. During the years that I worked as a prosecutor in a small county with a single Interstate I can tell you horror stories about trucking accidents and arrests literally until the cows come home for weeks at a time. As I said that is one small county with relatively light truck traffic. The bad guys are out there and the ATA wants bigger trucks??? NO WAY.

LC

5

I’ll agree. There are more than a few bad apples out there. I used to work with a few. More than a couple times they’ve approached me about helping them fool the UA. I refused and was labeled a contemptible person for not doing so.

But the long and the short of it though, there are bad apples everywhere and there’s enough to *** it up for everyone.

6

Keeping my big mouth shut on this one.

7

I find it hard to belive that you have so much data on trucking acciddents and arrests. I drove through alot of states were they look at truckers as a revenue source the state of Ohio is the worst. That state you get above 60 mph count on a ticket and a few other tickets since they tear your truck apart til they find something else. I have something I would like to say for those who attack truckers. He was an engineer for Conrail at the time and he killed 16 because he wanted to get high and had di

8

It’s scary that the Class 1 railroads continue to push for one man operator’s in locomotives.

As I’ve posted before, high speed CSX intermodals blast through my area at 60 m.p.h. on the former Atlantic Coast Line. I usually stop counting when I get to 70 cars. It feels reassuring that if the engineer suddenly becomes ill, another trained railroad professional in that cab will stop the train and call for help. What happens if the train derails, the fire dept. arrives, the engineer is knocked out or worse, and the manifest can’t be found. Call the dispatcher…who already is likely swamped. Great! Today’s railroad executives certainly don’t live in the real world.

Guys, it’s obvious that Sanvtoman is referring to the “bad apples” only. I shared the road with trucks when I drove big MCI buses. Most of those truckers drove safely, making their living. Though “slightly” more flexible; truckers as a group have a lot in common with locomotive crews:

  1. Working long hours, and/or “Oddball” hours,
  2. Only being able to get a few hours sleep between jobs,
  3. Pressure to make it to the destination on time,
  4. Much time away from families and family functions,
  5. Underappreciated and sometimes “sneered at” by the public even though they make our economy flow.

Let’s not forget that the trucking and railroading industry interact with each other more than ever. Intermodal service has been a tremendous benefit (and unfortunately,curse) to both industries.

The issue here seems to be one man crew proposals. Where’s the public outcry? Where are the transportation safety advocates that lobby senators, complaining about “potholes” ?

9

What seriously? You can’t compare Ricky Gates to truck drivers. It’s different on so many different levels…I would bet that on a per-operator basis that trucking is wayyyyyy more dangerous and more likely to cause injury than a single engineer on any class 1. You can’t bring up one example of a railroad tragedy and say it proves that truckers are more safe. I have known and worked with truckers that “flex” their on-duty hours in order to make it across the country faster than the feds say they should. They know how to hide from the dispatchers (with sat. tracking) and flex their D.O.T. books too make it seem legit. It’s all in the the process, but I bet if you went by tonnage moved, truckers would wind up well in on the “more dangerous” side than any class 1 RR. They have less supervision, less intervention, and less regulation. Yes, moron drivers can cut off trucks and cause accidents, and often do,but in the end, you can’t bring up R.G. and say “oh look at this guy…trucks are safer and haven’t earned any bad reps!”

[2c]

10

I agree that two-man crews are absolutely essential in the cabs of long-distance freight trains with either loose car manifest trains or the typical unit-train, or a mixture UNTIL

Track structure is improved so that sun-kinks and other derailments are passed history on the entire main-line railway network and not a matter of almost daily occurance.

And yes, I do have an idea of how that can be done.

AND

The kind of automatic operation typical of the most modern rapid transit systems, where the operator simply closes the doors and the train runs to the next station and opens its doors entirely automatically is adapted and adopted for freight railroading (not so simple as with commuter and rapid transit which generally have one or perhaps two or three thypes of equipment and train lengths to contend with) so that the one man who remains on the engine, and does remain an essential person, is relieved of all routine operations and is there only for emergencies and to put the train in start mode when leaving the terminal. Then and only then will one-man operation be safe.

11

I am sick of everyone saying truckers are the reason for all that is wrong on teh highways. For 2004 90% of ALL accidents that involved an OTR truck the automobile was at fault and of the other 10% 9% of those were a car cutting off a semi and standing on the brakes. Only 1% of all DOT reportable accidents were directly the fault of the driver of the OTR driver.

12

antoniofp45 thanx for understanding my point!

13

Poppa, i am not trying to offend people really.I am just speaking how it was when i worked on the railroad. Also people i worked with are still employed on the RR.I see them quite often. Also you are an s gauge man.i used to operate american flyer tinplate.I still have a couple Gilbert catologs from the early and mid 60s.Than for you response.As far as railroad profit except for CN their profits are not that big compared to the money they put out.

14

Railroads could not make any profit without carload freight. What do you think containers and TOFC are if not carload freight?[?] Since the begining of railroads they have relied on first wagons and now trucks to pickup and deliever there goods. They do not compete but compliment each other. If the railroads started bulk only shippments there would not be enough hyway infrastructure to carry the goods much less drivers. The trucking industry can not find enough drivers now!![2c] I hope both the railroads and trucks do what they do best. DELIVER THE GOODS! As always ENJOY

15

[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by edbenton

I find it hard to belive that you have so much data on trucking acciddents and arrests. I drove through alot of states were they look at truckers as a revenue source the state of Ohio is the worst. That state you get above 60 mph count on a ticket and a few other tickets since they tear your truck apart til they find something else. I have something I would like to say for those who attack truckers. He was an engineer for Conrail at the

16

Many parts of my just find that hard to believe… the number of times that I’ve been driving on a two lane highway at the speed limit when a big semi comes up behind and starts to push and continues to push even when I’m going 15 KPH over the limit… it’s just too much.

17

I work as a dispatcher for a nation-wide trucking company, and I KNOW drivers frequently manipulate the log books, frequently try to ‘get away’ with operating heavier than permitted, frequently run over their hours, etc. The company I dispatch for has strict policies against that sort of operation, but since we mostly contract with independent drivers, they set their own operating conditions. We would NEVER even hint to a driver that he should ‘cut corners’, or run in excess of legal. Indeed, if we catch them, we get rid of them. At least the company I work for is safety-minded.

I also have two nephews that drives interstate 18-wheelers, and I KNOW they runs over his hours (forced to by management), drinks a lot, gets very little sleep, etc. I worry that one day I will be attending their funeral, or visiting them in jail.

However, if you really pay attention to how 4-wheelers drive around and in front of the big rigs, it soon becomes apparent that those truck drivers exercise a great deal of patience and control. I would agree with the stats edbenton quoted regarding the causes of most truck/auto collisions. In addition, I feel that some of the blame must go to the trucking companie’s management, as they more or less force the drivers to operate in an unsafe manner. All that is important to a pointy-haired manager is performance-not safety. Some managers are good, but the good ones are rare.

After the Feds implemented random testing, I knew very few rails that continued to do drugs, and most of the drinkers were much more cognizant of their alcohol use. And those that continued to use drugs were eventually weeded out (pun intended).

When my dad was teaching me to drive (back in '69), one of his tips was “when in doubt, follow a trucker, they know what they are doing”. Nowadays, I see so many truck drivers that operate in such a manner that it seems the only requirement to operate was a pulse slightly above zero. I no longe

18

A good dispatcher are few and far in between. Lucky indeed is the driver or team that does “Marry up” to a excellent Boss. They will run thru Hell and High water if asked for that person. I dont hold anything against bad dispatchers at all but lucky have I been to meet and work with some very good people. My very last dispatcher was excellent and when I told him "That appoint date and time you gave me is a pipe dream… and this is the reason why…[Lists reasons] it will either get fixed or not. I think it is the shippers and recievers that hold trucking hostage to thier demands. There will always be a hungry and broke trucker willing to “Cut corners” to get product there.

19

I’ve found driving a Uhaul a couple times that the professional drivers were usually very courtious and would attempt to assist me if I showed I needed any help. More than once when changing lanes I’d put my signal on and the driver of the truck behind me would let me know it’s ok to get over.

You, as a driver of a vehicle, have to watch out for and drive for not only yourself and your car, but those around you. This includes taking the time to signal before changing lanes, not blocking another car getting on an on-ramp, PAYING ATTENTION TO EVERYTHING, and giving trucks some room.

20

Alabama Trucker Found Guilty in Utah Cra***hat Killed Three
March 31, 2006, 03:15 PM EST

SALT LAKE CITY – A truck driver was found guilty of negligent homicide for slamming his rig into a line of stalled cars on Interstate-80, killing three people and leaving a fourth paralyzed from the neck down.

Robie Joseph Dalrymple, who waived his right to a jury trial, was convicted Thursday by a 3rd District Court judge on three of the misdemeanor counts for last June’s mishap.

Dalrymple, 41, of Alabama, faces up to a year in jail on each of the charges when he is sentenced June 9 by Judge Judith Atherton.

Atherton said Dalrymple had an unobstructed view of the highway and stalled traffic, which had backed up for miles in western Salt Lake County because of a head-on cra***hat killed two other people. A man blamed for that accident was accused of drunken driving.
Yet Dalrymple, who said he was driving 65 mph, never slowed or hit his brakes, according to witnesses and an absence of skid marks. Troopers testified he wasn’t able to explain why he failed to avoid hitting the cars. He apologized to family members after the trial.

“He’s probably living in his own hell,” said Kimberlee Madison, the mother of Mistee Ann Brallier, 35, of Bountiful, who died after Dalrymple’s semitrailer truck crashed into her car.

Also killed were Rachel Mary McTeer, 29, of American Fork, and William Camp Price, 80, of Salt Lake City.

Dalrymple wasn’t accused of being intoxicated and his log books showed he hadn’t been driving longer than federal regulations allow.

Andrew E. Hopper, 64, was accused of causing the initial accident. He faces a preliminary hearing May 19 on charges including felony auto homicide.

Information from: The Salt Lake Tribune