For speculative reasons let us just say that there is a large shipper located many miles from the nearest intermodal terminal. This distance currently makes intermodal uncompetitive for the business - which now moves by over the road trucking. But, truck competitive intermodal trains serving distant terminals do run right by this shipper without stopping.
The potential volume for the railroad is 60 containers per day in 30 wells. To be truck competitive the shipments must move intermodal. What to do? That’s not enough volume to justify a train originating at the shipper’s facility, but it is enough volume to justify a small intermodal terminal to serve the shipper.
So the concept put forward is to: 1) build the small terminal, 2) load the shipper’s buiness at that terminal, 3) use a two person switch crew and a RC locomotive to add the shipper’s business to the rear of an existing intermodal train that will be stopped for a pick up at the shipper’s facility.
The switch crew will have the air pumped and ready on the wells to be added. When the mainline train stops one member of the switch crew removes the end of train device, the wells to be added are shoved forward, the joint is made and tested, and the air is hooked up. Then the switch locomotive is uncoupled and moved away. An EOTD is placed at the end of the enlarged mainline train.
My questions are:
what kind of brake test needs to be done?
how long will that take?
have I described anything impractical, weird or downright silly?
If that’s what it takes, please tell me that. It’s quite possible to do. What can the guy cost? $60.00/hour? That’s $480/day which is chicken feed compared to the revenue on the stipulated 60 container loads.
If that’s what it takes. I just want know. I’d assume the car knocker mentiioned above will do the blue flag protection (which would be included in the $480 allocated for said car knocker.) The packer operator can be a part time contractor and the packer itself could be second hand.
What do you want me to call it? There is a need to shove the originating loads on to the back of the train. If it’s more efficient to do it with a 20 mule team, please tell me that.
Oh yes it does. Otherwise there would not be 15 loads per day (on average) of apples being moved by over the road trucking from Washington state to Florida.
There are still many grain shippers around now that do essentially the same thing. There are also manufacturers that have take delivery of or ship raw materials in onesy/twosy carloads that the RR delivers/picks-up on some sort of schedule or on demand. They have a siding on a mainline or spur off of it and have room for 2 to 20 or more cars and a small engine (sometimes a rubber tired device that just pushes the cars or pulls them with chains). Sometimes an engine from the RR will come to spot cars.
The only thing that is different in your scenario is some method to lift the intermodal containers onto the cars instead of just parking the RR car under a spout to fill it or connecting a hose to empty it. It makes no difference what kind of cars they are, you would have to do the same chores with regard to brakes or EOTD.
What is the difference between picking up one or two hopper, flat, gondola, etc, cars, versus 30 intermodal flat/well cars?
I don’t know how many times I’ve watched a pick up or a set out off the head end.
The difference here is that I’m trying to save precious time. The pick up here needs to be done as rapidly as possible. No conductor walking 30 car lenghts. Delay the intermodal train as little as possible. Be stopped on the main line as little as possible.
I think I can put it all together except for any brake test that needs to be done after the cars are shoved on to the rear of the intermodal train. I need to know what needs to be done and get an estimate of how long it would take.
The two person switch crew could do the brake test. I know there are contract switching operations that have qualified people to do the test. I’ve seen the air brake notification slips that had the name of the companies, which weren’t railroads. (I’m not saying that all, or even most, have people qualified to do the tests. Just that some do.)
The cars would have to have an initial terminal test done on them. It could be done with the locomotive (most likely in this case) or with an air plant. How long would depend on how long it takes to bring the train line up to the proper pressure, set the brakes and walk the set, release the brakes and walk the release. All the time doing the required safety inspection. (There’s also a leakeage component of the test, but wouldn’t really require more time on a large cut of cars.) If the track had a roadway on both sides, the person doing the inspection could drive the set and release. If a car’s brakes doesn’t set up, it can be retested once. On the retest, the brakes have to set and hold for 3 minutes.
Assuming the cut passes the test, the cut is considered a solid block of cars and good for 4 hours off air. Possibly some scheme could be worked out to provide an air source if pick up would be close to missing that 4 hour window.
If the air test expires, than the train crew would have to redo the intial terminal test. In any event, once the solid block is added to the train the train crew needs to do an application and release test to verify air brake continuity through out the train.
IMO, it would be almost as easy to just have the road crew use their engines and make the pick up on head end. If the facility is being switched by a contract company, I would almost think they would have to have the railroad do the pick up. I think it would be rare that a contract outfit would be allowed to
The Cold Train operation in Quincy, WA was something like this, but they added the block to the front end using the road locomotives. The trains would be stopped in town for about an hour. Not sure if that helps.
The very nature of intermodal freight is to gather loads in a regional terminals and provide high speed scheduled service. They might block those loads on a regular train as if they were grain cars but they won’t stop a intermodal train. Intermodal trains are time sensitive premium service. Just truck the loads to the terminal.
You will have to do a pretty slick job of selling that to the railroad. It will not be popular to propose stopping an intermodal train on the main track to pick up 30 boxes.
Will your economics work if you have to build a 10,000 ft siding with dual control switches at each end to allow the train to pull off the main track to make the pick up?
I proposed pretty much this exact same scenario to an very experienced intermodal marketing guy who now works for a regional rail line. He was receptive, but pointed out that there was no way the Class I - NS in this case - would create a less-than-trainload block of cars for that destination. Also, the prospective receiver in that instance - a humonguous retailer [;)] - is a well-known pain in the wazoo to work with, and would drive the rates down so low that there’d be no money left in it to make it worthwhile.
For your and other scenarios, though, I like how you’re thinking, and the thread of questions and responses (esp. Jeff Hergert, as usual). Thanks to everyone.
How about having the intermodel train leave its terminal with the proper number of empty well cars on the rear. The shipper’s siding must be equipped with a switch at both ends and be long enough to hold the entire train. The train moves into the siding, and cranes simply pick up the containers and place them on the welll cars. The operation is performed by the industry’s people, with the train conductor checking to insure safe locking of the containers to the wellcars, and in the case of double[stack, to each other. The reverse is done for the empty containers or containers with a product that the industry needs for its product’s production.
If traffic on the main line isn’t heavy, then a siding would not be necessary. The train would simply occupy the time for the loading and in reverse unloading of the well cars using the cranes.
And yes, the well cars could be on a manifest train to and from a terminal where the cars would be switched to an intermodal train.
For a terminal like that, you probaly won’t even need a switch crew. Have 3-4 stub tracks: a track for inbounds/empty buckets, a track for the loaded ones to take out, and a storage/RIP track. Load them from to the front back, so any extra emp
You really want to do the work from the head end, both set out and pick up.
Agree with Zugman that you can save a lot of time and trouble with a fixed air system as compared to a loco. Do not agree with his stub track layout.
I have not looked at Quincy on Google Earth but the original design had about 3000 feet of double ended working track. The main a Quincy is busy enough that it should have the ability for westward trains to clear the main for setout and eastward for the pickup. With 7000 foot long trains that is almost 5,000 feet each side of the working area. I expect switches and signals at both ends are controlled. The original design lacked the ability to clear the main and I think that was big part of the reason BNSF had no interest in using it.
It is a lot of facility, and a nice one if they built it out as described. Was all public funds of one type or another. Washington Ports can do about anything, including building intermodal facilities out in the country and getting State and Fec grants to help pay for it.
Figure about half an hour for setout and the same for pickup IF air test is good. Assume the railroad will require you to have the cut air tested so they can simply pick it up, make continuity test, and go.
Reason I went with a stub - if we are doing hand-thrown, it’s easier only having one switch to hand-throw. If we’re doing powered switches or CP points, then you’re looking at major money for a small terminal.
If the cars had already had a initial terminal brake test and either been left “on air” or it had been “off air” less the 4 hours, once they were picked up, the EOT needs to be hung, armed, the brake pipe pressure confirmed, and the EOT emergency brake function tested.
Depending on how you went about picking up the cars, the longest part is getting the conductor back to the head end, unless “your” switch crew did the work…educated guess is close to a half hour if it is set up right.
Work it this way…assume you have a 2 man crew and RCO locomotive, and have all the cars laced up and on air, and have been or are qualified to do an initial terminal air brake test, and have done so.
Main line train pulls past the switch leading to the cut of cars, your crew has them stop rear of the train just clear of the switch, removes the EOT, and your crew has the train back down to the new cut of cars, make the joint, cut in the air, drag the new rear back to the switch…your guys hang the EOT, do a quick set and release, confirm the brake pipe pressure, close the anglecock between the last two cars and have the engineer “plug” the EOT, (the last car should go into emergency)…confirm the EOT functions as required, send the main line train on its way…somewhere in there you get the air slip to the head end, most likely as they pass by on the first move.
Maybe 30 minutes?
Without your switch crew doing the work, at least an hour, if not more, and a lot of walking!