Hi Folks
I pretty well have my plan finished including a yard for switching cars around , its really taking a lot of extra room away which I expected and the reason I wanted the yard was to have some fun with operations.
My question is is it possible to have some sort of operations without having a yard. The layout does have the large hidden staging yard but not so much for hooking up cars moving them to another track making consist… etc. Is it possible to use some sort of carcard system for an op session without having a small switching yard by simply using the industries?
Yes.
Provided you can send a switching turn out from your hidden storage to work the industries.
You might also switch cars from the head end or tail of a Local.
In real life far more RR is not yard than anything we ever model. We have sort of got into a habit of modelling yards… but there’s no reason at all why we shouldn’t just model plain track and watch the trains roll by.
A major freight yard usually is between districts and represents a point where cars may be split to head off in different directions. You can do all this off the scenicked layout. What I am actually doing is terminal operations where traffic originates.
Save your big yard area for some fun industrial switching. I actually am ending up with some function of a yard turntable and all but its being designed in carefully so not to take a lot of room, but I may need car storage. The yard is a way to setup/build trains to run over the layout.
If you can reach into your staging to “fiddle” consists (and open top loads) you don’t need a major yard on the visible portion of the railroad. You will need runaround tracks and some spurs where a through train can drop cars for a local. The latter can masquerade as team tracks or interchange tracks supposedly connecting with other railroads.
Even if you can’t get the 0-5-0 into your staging yard, you can get the same result by pre-sorting desired consists before an operating session, then parking them in staging until their cue is given.
I agree that model railroads tend to have too much yard, but I doubt that Andy Sperandeo would. It all depends on whether you would really prefer to be a yardmaster.
Chuck (who really prefers to be Division Superintendent)
Thanks Guys
Looks like I’ll be revamping my plan again adding a couple passing sidings and dropping the yard I’m thinking to perhaps go back to my old idea which was to where the track to the left of the yard is make it a passing siding [:)]
Lynn
That’s actually a very good plan. The yard doesn’t seem to take up all that much space considering the advantages of switching and classifying right in your face. Any of this type of added ops would be impossible in hidden staging. Just hate to see you kick yourself later, like some night that you’d just like to work the yard instead of run trains.
Bob K.
Ok guys I’ve been getting some real good info from here and spent quite a bit of time rearranging the plan I’m thinking this is what you mean by the added siding and I really look forward to some input.
You can see I changed the left side industrial spurs quite a bit as well and added a passing siding on the left.
Lynn,
That works. You may also want to continue the added track south/ bottom in into the tunnel as a lead/ drill track The double portal there would look pretty good also. This would give you the leads needed at bothends of the yard and not foul the main. Say, 2-3 operators with no problem.
Bob K.
I can’t get a very sharp pic of your latest plan but it looks to me like you have provided a passing loop (using “loop” in the sense of a parralel road with access from one track at both ends) in the Left hand lower corner.
This is an excellent idea.
If you wire it right you will be able to pull one train into it, hold it and either run an opposing train by or have a following train pass it. There are other tricks that you can get up to such as “saw-bys”.
I would tend to make the loop as long as possible (subject to any grades you have) and move the connection as close as it will go to the rectangular building(?) in the top left square. … unless there is some need for the long lead to that building… don’t know the detail of your plan but if you are unloading into that building only cars standing alongside will be able to be worked on so any long lead is waste track. For appearances you might compromise and go half way.
RR tend to make loops a bit longer than the maximum length train… it’s much easier to get the whole train in rather than squeaking in the caboose or FRED.
You can also squeeze in two short trains or a long train and locos running light (not necessarily in the same direction… just make sure that the first has stopped before bringing the second in! [This will need DCC or some attention to how you wire it for DC - I would split the loop in the middle at the very least - as well as making the whole loop capable of being independent of the main - It would be good to give the loop a choice of controllers… that way you could switch those spurs that run off it working strictly within the loop while running a train by on
David you have to be sure to first click the blue link then once that opens being semi blurry click that one again and you’ll get a very good shot of the plan
Lynn
That’s better! I enlarged your pic…
Okay, what I just said is good for the LH side.
What are you up to on the RH side?
I would caution against enough switches for a major passenger terminal… Okay you can go here, there and everywhere… but RR don’t do that…'cos switches cost money to put in and maintain… and they’re favourite places for things to fall off.
I think that you are likely to find that you can make all the moves you want - possibly having to make additional moves to get from where you start to where you want to finish - with fewer switches.
It occurs to me that this is a trap non RR people fall into… there is a diference between manouvering your auto on a large slab of concrete to get from A to E or M to the way a railraod shuffles a movement between the same places. The mistake is to provide all the routes that the free movement on a flat surface a car can make. trapped in flangeways a rail movement may well shuffle about more like a bad bit of parralel parking.
I hope this makes sense!
I like the plan, if you don’t mind a latecomer. I do feel that you have a very tight turn, innermost, near where you have “added passing track” on the left. You have a short add-in in red or purple, if I see it correctly, but then your curve draws tightly upward. If that is easily negotiated by the rolling items you will use, then fine.
I don’t suppose that it would be useful to continue the outside track at lower right that enters the left tunnel portal, as viewed? Or do you have another idea not displayed as yet?
the purple track will get worked out when I lay the track.
The the outside track at lower right that enters the left tunnel portal actually goes down to the staging yard it goes down a 2.5% grade to 18" below the bench.
Had to get some sleep… six hours ahead of you here Used to live right on the 0 meridian…does terrible things to your body compass all that moving from east to west and back [:)] and trying to do the Feng shui thing is nearly impossible[8D]).
Anyway… still kept thinking about all those crossovers… (Bearing in mind that if you want them you have them…)
Okay…
I don’t know the scale of your drawing / the lengths or the lengths of your trains but - as a general pricipal - loops, sidings and run-rounds are at least a “normal” train length of clear/plain track.
This is simply because a “normal” train standing on one track will block any use of any connection between the ends of the track…
Put simply, if a connection to/from a loco shed is from or crosses the middle area of a parralel track anything standing on that track will render it useless … or have to be divided to give access (this is done but not often - too much messing about).
This means that connections tend to cluster at the outer end of train lengths… just like the ladders at the end of staging tracks.
You can take connections off in the middle area and you can cross the middle… you just need to be aware of the restrictions on movement that will apply.
If you are going to do this the question is “do I come off the siding or the main”?
The answer lays somewhere in the following… A. connecting to the main means that you will be free from being blocked by a train standing waiting to be passed (assuming that you normally put these into the loop and run by them on the main). Making a connection this way you can get a train into the loop “in clear” and then whiz something - a switching move or loco - out onto the main and through the connection before the next train is due on the main.
RR usually work a rule along the lines that a main must be clear x minutes before a scheduled train is due. Obviously this varies and a full interlocking can pu
Next bit…
Why is that loco shed there?
Because you want a loco shed.
No problem.
You can just have it, no problem… or you can have it and create yourself a reason.
If you look at my recent threads I posted to someone else a thing about creating a conceptual bigger world around the bit of RR you model.
In your case the bit you are modelling might fall just short of a fairly big yard (not too big or you would need a bigger shed).
Division point sheds are usually substantial unless it is a small line… which means small traffic…
Okay… so you can have a town with a big enough yard… mostly for locals/way freights to have done enough work coming from the Division Point to need a service.
This might mean that you have a resident switcher to work their train(s) in the big yard while they are serviced.
This is neat because you can work all sorts of light loco moves.
Next “reason” is that you are at the foot or head of a length with a grade that needs Helpers. The grade doesn’t have to be right next door. It won’t be hundreds of miles away but Helpers don’t only come onto trains right at the foot of a grade (same again at the top).
Better still… Helpers may come onto slow moving freights at the foot of a grade but be attached to fast services at a suitable stop further away so that the fast can blast through the Grade rather than lose time stopping.
An advantage to this is that while slow freight helpers will come on the back or cut in mid train fast traffic helpers go on the point (leading or cut in depends on the Compny’s policy and date). This is much easier in both DCC and DC.
You also have a ready made excuse reason for more locos[:)]
Going back on the last post… I would look for a way of accessing the loco clear of the loop roads… to cut out those crossovers and to get round all the issues listed… locos want/need to be able to access the shed without having to wait for anything in the loo
1. If you go with the last post ideas and have your shed next door to a moderatley big yard that the way freights are hauling to and then coming into the loco while a switcher sorts their train out… you only need a raod for the switcher to live in if that. [V]
BUT… if the yard is also the home of a couple of locals, maybe running out on one or more branch lines… you need more shed roads [:D]
You could make one road a maintenance road. very little movement on it (so it’s the least accessible road) but lots of interesting detail to model and you can stand a loco there for ages - if you have a favourite you like looking at… or one that actually needs you to work on it. Make this road one you can totally isolate.
2. This should drive you really crazy…[}:)]
It depends a bit on era but… A. for a start you could just link the two passing loops together as one long loop.
If you haven’t guessed already this would mean you can put more train(s) into the loop to be passed or overtaken.
You can also make a rolling pass (of opposing trains only)… the train in the loop keeps crawling DEAD slow while the opposing train runs through at moderate speed to slow (because the headways are limited and if they get it wrong you would get a cornfield meet). B. You can put at least a crossover into the middle of the long loop.
This gives you two short loops and the long one.
How you play around switching trains in and out for meets and overtakes is up to you.
You can also put a train inside one loop switch on the other and run by.
[:D][:D][:D] WHHEEE! Really playing trains!! [:D][:D][:D]
(Oops![:I] Sorry![:0] Got to be serious…[;)])
You could work out which way round to set one crossover (bearing in mind that - maybe - big yard next door [that tra
the scale is HO the max length of trains will be 10 cars.
as for era I’m not trying to model one compared to the other but its definately not modern…kind of a lost world where there’s all old dirt roads old vehicles , steamers but also newer well not real newer diesels running the tracks as well.
you mention I can make the same moves with not so many switches on the RH side can you post the plan with the switches you think I don’t need? I don’t mind having to make extra moves afterall thats the fun of it right?
-As for the engine shed basicly it is there to look nice the TT I’m not quite sure I will be putting on the layout as the one I have is an atlas 9" and I have many larger steam engines although I do have some diesels as well that may be quite content to utilize the TT.I definatley will look into making a seperate entrance for the engine house.
you had mentioned
A. for a start you could just link the two passing loops together as one long loop.
If you haven’t guessed already this would mean you can put more train(s) into the loop to be passed or >overtaken
I have 2 passing sidings which one is this referring to ? oh oh I just realized what u mean having a passing siding all the way from the right side over to the left.
-for C I 'm sure I seen that in the John Armstrong book.
I think all your ideas are very good but hard to follow for me I would really like to see them drawn on the jpg say in a green color for one area of your ideas and maybe a dif color with a nother idea…nothing fancy.
And no your not driving me nuts I’m enjoying the ideas.[:)]
Lynn
