Opinion Poll, who makes the best locomotives?

[riogrande5761]

And that “you get want you pay for” depends on the roll of the QC dice.You may get a great model or a soddy model…You have read the topics and seen the photos just like I have.

The dice roll is generally better now than it was say 6 to 8 years ago. I have always been critical of Athearns QAQC, but quality has improved in recent years. Plus, if you get a lemon, exchange it for another model. I have had to do that a couple times - yes I got an SD45T-2 with the front truck hanging out totally loose from the frame - sent it back for another which is good. You don’t have to accept a bad loco. And other makers have had lemons too, to be fair. KATO’s SD40-2 with the poor wiring design, and Atlas had a run of GP40’s that I had to order replacement trucks because they had issues. I’d still give Athearn an near the top rating.

When a once loyal customer decides its much safer to buy a older LL P2K SCL GP9 instead of a Genesis SCL GP9 or perfers a RTR GP38-2 over a Genesis GP38-2 due to QC issues its a sad day.

He probably got a bad model. What is more sad is that this guy may have accepted an inferior model rather than exchange the better make for a good one. Athearn has had QA problems with the RTR line as well as the Genesis line. People mke decisions out of emotion rather than thought, but thats their business. I just want those who read this topic to try to weed out the bias and have a “big picture” view of HO diesel makes, rather than the statistical outlyers.

I will take a Atlas or a older LL P2K engine any day over a Genesis.

A LL P2K engine over Genesis? I have read a lot of negative feedback from those who have put LL P2K engines to the test over the years, such as Rob Spangler and Joe Fugate. Both have used P2K loco’s extensively and found th

[jecorbett]

jecorbett

Fair enough. My first Athearn DCC was a non-sound Mikado. Ran OK, not great. Not a lot of pulling power as compared to a couple other Mikes on my roster. I’d put it in the same class as Spectrum, which is also in the good, not great category. My most recent addition is a Geep. It tends to stall at slow speeds. The sound is pathetics as compared to what other manufacturers are offering. I also have a AB set of F3s. They are the best of the bunch but I have been unable to change the factory address from 0003 to the road number, even though I have a PowerPax booster that is supposed to handle the high end decoders. They are the only locos I’ve had from any manufacturer where that has been an issue.

I’m glad you’ve been happy with your Athearn locos, but I can only rate them based on my experience with them and that has not been great.

Which Geep? Geeps could be GP35, GP40-2, GP38-2, GP9. Is the sound MRC or Tsunami? Athearn discontinued MRC because it was pathetic. When Athearn engines were purchased matters a lot. Experience is valid, but lets be sure that experience isn’t going to throw a brand under the buss because it was from a period when Athearns track record was more spotty. Personlly, I don’t think your experience represents the brand well. I say that because I combine the experience of many others I talked to and read about on forums and overall, it is MUCH more positive.

Sorry, Athearn doesn’t get a pass on this. Even if th

[riogrande5761]

You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn’t work that way.

PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9.

I understand people make emotional decisions based on a bad experience. Why not just exchange the “inferior product”? You know, I had a bad experience with ExactRail when I bought their Centerbeam - I exchanged it 3 or 4 times and even the last one had a mild warp in the flat car portion. That being said, I’m not going to tell people Exactrail makes a lousy product, in general they make the best HO freight cars on the market. Everyone makes a few duds. You and I may probably need to agree to disagree. People tend to complain loudly when something is wrong (I do it too), but are often silent when they are happy. Case in point - this topic. I own around 70 Athearn diesels and really like them alot. I also own around 20 Atlas diesels, they are really nice too. I would suggest you consider Athearn, Atlas, Walthers, Proto 2000, when you are looking for a diesel to purchase. Which ever brand makes the model you like, go for it. They are all reputable companies which over all make nice products.

[BRAKIE]

A LL P2K engine over Genesis? I have read a lot of negative feedback from those who have put LL P2K engines to the test over the years, such as Rob Spangler and Joe Fugate. Both have used P2K loco’s extensively and found the mechanisms haven’t held up on their large layouts, and theirs isn’t the only negative feedback on LL P2K. And that isn’t even mentioning the widespread problem with cracked gears! So while they make nice looking diesels, it seems illogical to say LL P2k are better than Genesis. I’ve haven’t read that Genesis mechanisms are, in the long haul, worse than P2k. Atlas I agree, and thats why they are near the top.

I will still buy a LL P2K over a Genesis due to the on going QC issues…

For us mere mortals the P2K locomotives will last…Of course we don’t run our engines at Mach 5 either.

Never put much stock in what some “expert wannabes” say…I believe CurtMc far better…He has stayed the course in his observations.

The funny part not so long ago I got flamed because I sold all 30 of my Geeps off due to the crack gears-that was one of the most stupidest things I ever did.

Now according to some wannabes P2K is junk…Of course some wannabes trash Kato as well…

[jecorbett]

jecorbett

You seem to want us to only evaluate Athearn by their best products. It doesn’t work that way.

PS. The Geep I bought was a GP-9.

I understand people make emotional decisions based on a bad experience. Why not just exchange the “inferior product”? You know, I had a bad experience with ExactRail when I bought their Centerbeam - I exchanged it 3 or 4 times and even the last one had a mild warp in the flat car portion. That being said, I’m not going to tell people Exactrail makes a lousy product, in general they make the best HO freight cars on the market. Everyone makes a few duds. You and I may probably need to agree to disagree. People tend to complain loudly when something is wrong (I do it too), but are often silent when they are happy. Case in point - this topic. I own around 70 Athearn diesels and really like them alot. I also own around 20 Atlas diesels, they are really nice too. I would suggest you consider Athearn, Atlas, Walthers, Proto 2000, when you are looking for a diesel to purchase. Which ever brand makes the model you like, go for it. They are all reputable companies which over all make nice products.

It’s not an emotional response to judge a company by the products it sells you. It is a very reasonable response.

The OP asked for opinions on brands of locomotives. How else do we do that other than our experience with those brands? It’s not like a lumped Athearn in with Model Power. I have bought a lot of Athearn over the years, mostly BB locos and rolling stock. I still occasionally buy a RTR pie

[Michael6792]

Michael6792

I too have read the responses & can’t say I’m suprised. I do like my Athearn BB locos…I’ve had quite a few over the years. They are quite durable, easy to work on, reasonably priced, and even though they were discontinued parts are still readily available. I know there are many nicer, more expensive locomotives out there but with the old BB you get a pretty good bang for your buck. I will say, however, the stock wheels on these units leave alot to be desired.

As long as you have earplugs, their OK.

However, upgrading one to have sound also means you have to replace the motor, flywheels, driveshafts and wheels to get one that you can hear the sounds you want. Why not start with a better unit because your “bang for the buck” just went pop!

For me, Atlas, Kato and Intermountain top my list, pretty much a 3 way tie

followed closely by Proto 2000

Stewart

Bachmann Spectrum

Lima (awesome C-420s)

Mantua (steam only)

Bowser/Penn line

Bachmann Plus

Athearn BB

I personally have shied away from BLI, Genesis and MTH because of the horror stories expressed here and elsewhere about the quality control and poor customer service.

Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I’m not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I’ve never owned either in HO but I do

[riogrande5761]

It’s not an emotional response to judge a company by the products it sells you. It is a very reasonable response.

That really depends on the response. IMO, a reasonable response would be to try to understand if your experience is representative of the products the company produces in general, or if you were unlucky. It kinda sounds like you’ve been unlucky based on my experence and what I’ve read of many others experiences on Atlas forums, TrainOrders, MR forums, and several others. Yes, being unlucky isn’t nice but the context of this topic is to fair give someone unfamiliar with a product, a negative bird eye view of it based on such a limited sample? Statistically not for sure. If one gives someone an unfair view of that company, is it reasonble if the majority of it’s products are quite good? Not in my opinion. I’ve been buying Athearn since I was a teen in the mid 1970’s and right up to the present, and over all Athearn has made very good products. I have read about some bad experiences and had a few myself, but overall, I’ll still give Athearn good marks. Historically, Atlas and KATO have had a better QAQC track record yes.

I also believe part of the picture is what your diesel type and road name preferences are. My guess is if you needed tunnel motors, your opinion would be a bit different, probably a lot different. It is easier for folks to dismiss or give a worse rating to a company if they don’t make very much product catering to their wants. Just saying … that definitely biases me toward Athearn, and understandably so. I have to say, I like Athearn because I am a western fan and Athearn produces nice SD40T-2’s, SD45T-2’s and SD45’s. People of an eastern bias would probably gravitatte toward Atlas as they seem to lean toward eastern roads.

That being said, I’ll repeat what

[jecorbett]

I didn’t start this thread to depate “who makes the best locomotive” I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn’t realize the can of worms I was opening.

Opinions are like something else I won’t name. Everybody has one. Naturally not everybody is going to agree with the quality of products by any manufacturer. Somebody might think one company’s product is the best thing since bottled beer and somebody else might have that same company at the bottom of their totem pole. I think it’s healthy and productive for people to express their opinions respectfully. If we good a get sampling of opinions, somebody reading this thread should get a reasonable overall evaluation of the quality offered by various manufacturers.

[riogrande5761]

Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I’m not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I’ve never owned either in HO but I do have a few KATO in N scale and did have a few Atlas & they were night & day difference over the other locos I owned. (they are all gone now and all I have left are 2 KATOs)

I didn’t start this thread to depate “who makes the best locomotive” I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn’t realize the can of worms I was opening.

Keep in mind many of Athearns RTR line are DCC ready, as are all of the Genesis line.

As for best performing, generally KATO and Atlas are tops there, but Athearn has made some major advances were. My RTR SD45 runs like a KATO, honestly! Plust I’ve found my SW1000 run very smoothly also, and my GP9’s like KATO’s. To be thorough, I’ll say some have reported some of the Athearn RTR loco’s from around 2002-2006 approximately, have run like coffee grinders. This is likely due to spotty quality control as has been mentioned above.

I would like to add a brand that is no longer sold new in most stores, but are among the top HO runners. Stewart Hobbies F units!!! Bowser has taken over the Stewart line, but if you find any Stewarts in the white boxes with the red tartan, those were manufactured originally by KATO and run like a dream. I havne’t bought any of the Bowser made Stewarts, but haven’t heard anything change negatively.

[BRAKIE]

I’ll say some have reported some of the Athearn RTR loco’s from around 2002-2006 approximately, have run like coffee grinders.

Jim,Actually a lot of the early RTR was built up BB engines with thin plastic handrails,then came the newer RTR with some details and improved drive…The early run of RTR GP35 and RS3 was very spotty and a high risk roll of the QC dice.

Now the improve SW1000 and SW1500 is without a doubt a top line model except for the few with the warp handrails and Athearn replace those when notified of the problem…My SW1500 is a very smooth and quiet runner that I would put up against any brand.

My Athearn RTR GP38-2s,GP40-2,GP60Ms SD38,SD40 and SD40-2 are all top performers.

I’m just gun shy of their Geneses line and some of their RTR boxcars.

[jecorbett]

It kinda sounds like you’ve been unlucky based on my experence and what I’ve read of many others experiences on Atlas forums, TrainOrders, MR forums, and several others. Yes, being unlucky isn’t nice but the context of this topic is to fair give someone unfamiliar with a product, a negative bird eye view of it based on such a limited sample? Statistically not for sure. If one gives someone an unfair view of that company, is it reasonble if the majority of it’s products are quite good? Not in my opinion.

The short answer is that it is absolutely fair. Many online retailers have a product review page. Customers offer their opinions of a product based on their experience alone. If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky. If however, there are a dozen bad reviews among say 50 total reviews, that paints a completely different picture as to the quality of the product. It stands to reason that the higher percentage of substandard products a company produces, the higher percentage of negative reviews they will get.

Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them. If I were to give a letter grade to the three Genesis locos I have purchased, it would be a B and two Cs. That’s not good enough when I am paying for A quality. And I had forgotten about the 2 Athearn standard line DCC ready RS3s I purchased. I’ll be generous and give them a D. I had forgotten about them because I hardly ever run them any more. They have a high rate of derailments going through turnouts. I bought an Atlas RS3 shortly after buying these and the difference is night and day.

If we only offer positive reviews of products and keep our bad experiences to ourselves, that’s not fair to the companies that consistently produce quality products beca

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

This kind of question and the lists of choices they generate are always colored by what type of models a person is interested in.

A few thoughts:

It does not matter how good a KATO HO diesel is, they don’t make enough different models to even matter in the HO market.

For me it also does not matter how good ATLAS models are, I don’t own any of them because so few of their products fit my era or theme.

The cracked gears in older Proto2000 models cause some people to slide those locos WAY down their list, but to me it is a very minor issue and I love the performance and detail of older Proto models.

My only Athearn Genesis diesel experiance is F units, tied with Intermountian at the top of list as F units go in my opinion. The rest of the Genesis line is mostly out of my era, don’t know or care how good they are.

Bachmann - many are great, some have issues, but the prices and the Spectrum detail is great, so I make them work.

I will repeat, as I do on every thread on this topic. It is silly to think you can judge by the brand. They all make winner and losers.

Better questions would be “I’m interessted in medium steam, which ones are good?” “I’m interested in 1st generation diesels, which ones have you had good luck with?”

I would not give 50 cents for most of the BLI diesels I have seen just based on weak detail - at least not at the prices they ask. At a Bachmann price I might settle for that level of detail and ad some on my own.

What do I have? Mostly older Proto2000 diesels, Spectrum Steam, Intermountain and Genesis F units, some old Athearn units heavily rebuilt, a few BLI steamers, Proto2000 steam - I’m not unhappy with any of them.

Sheldon

[don7]

As to which locomotives are the best I would have to vote for Rapdio for Diesel locomotives. While I am now being pampered by their products which have the highest level of detail of any HO manufacturer. They cater to Canadian prototypes and while their offerings are limited, they have EMD FP9’s and also FA locomoitive.

Their locomotives fit my laout perfectly. They produce their own drive trains and their pulling power is all that I will ever need.

They are pricey, but you get what you pay for, in second place I would recommend Intermountain diesel locomotives.

As far as the best steam locomotives I collect mainly PFM brass locomotives, once again my layout is Canadian so I have no other choice. There is new brass being produced but their prices are beyond what I am willing to payl My old PFM brass engines have mainly open frame motors but are easily updated with new earth magnets and flywheels can also be easily added but with a comparison of performance with the new magnets I find adding flywheels does little to improve performance. Adding DCC is also rather straight forward and also easily updated at a reasonable cost. I have also updated some of my steamers with sound.

I have purchased a few of the new Candian brass engines and find the difference in detail and running characteristics between my old updated PFM steamers and the new brass to be very close. Hence, I will not pay the high premium prices for the new brass. I might change my mind if there was not so much old PFM and Overland Candain brass available.

For plastic steam engines, once again Candian prototypes there are currently no manufacturers catering to this market. However I would recommend that if you are into Steam that you look at Bachmann’s older Spectrum offerings that are still currently available and that you update them with Candian steam parts. I use Erich’s Fine Scale Parts. Using their enclosed steam cabs will give you a

[russ_q4b]

Trix

[kbkchooch]

Apparently you are biased against Athearn for some reason. I’m not claiming they are the best on the market by any means but they have their place on my layout. If I were going to install sound or upgrade to DCC I would not start with one of these though, I would look for something DCC ready from either Atlas or Kato. I’ve never owned either in HO but I do have a few KATO in N scale and did have a few Atlas & they were night & day difference over the other locos I owned. (they are all gone now and all I have left are 2 KATOs)

I didn’t start this thread to depate “who makes the best locomotive” I was simply looking for opinions on your best performers. I didn’t realize the can of worms I was opening.

I think you missed my point Michael. I don’t have anything against Athearn at all. At one time, probably 80% of what I had was Athearn. But then I started noticing things. I bought a Stewart F7, suddenly the windsheild profile on my BB Athearns bugged me. Then I bought some Atlas GP9s, and I sold my “widebody” Athearns. Kato GP35s spelled the end of my Athearn ones. Ditto for the SD40s. In all fairness to Athearn, I did buy 2 RTR GP38-2s. I was not impressed, the spline drive was better, but not as good as my Atlas units. All my other units, straight from the box, have been better than my experience with Athearn has been. Now Athearns account for less than 5% of the fleet, and only 2 of those still have their original drivelines…

You said it yourself, if you were going to upgrade to sound & DCC you wouldn’t go with Athearn, but look at something DCC ready from Atlas or Kato. Why is that? What are YOUR reasons?? Really, I’d like to hear t

[BRAKIE]

Its buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw!

Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was! I’m slowly building up a SCL/Family lines/Seaboard System roster using P2K and Atlas locomotives except for a lone Family Lines SW1500…

I still like my old fashion BB GP7s…They’re smooth running 25 year old engines …I killed the noise by adding weight to the inside top of the shell.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

kbkchooch
Its buying an engine that I know I will have to upgrade before I can enjoy it that sticks in my craw!

Karl,That thought laid heavily on my mind when I decided to dump my 30 P2K Geers( all C&O 7/9/30s).What stupid mistake that was!

I still like my old fashion BB GP7s…

Well I still buy new old stock Proto2000 locos at bargin prices and I have big stock of replacement axles/gears - not a problem for me. But I am mostly buying undecorated models I will take apart to paint anyway, so whats the problem with throwing in some new gears?

AND, most importantly, I have NEVER had a replacement set of gears, from PROTO, WAlTHERS or ATHEARN fail. So once they are fixed, they are fixed, again no big deal to me.

Sheldon

[Burlington_Northern1]

Hmmm, saying LL is trash… mmmkay, so my 6 units I own have put performance on par with my Kato’s another loco manufacturer that the HO crowd seems to dislike. Wouldn’t their units be under even higher scrutiny because they are few and far between in HO? seems like everytime I say I like Kato, that is always a response to it even though I’m talking in terms of N scale. guess everybody needs to have athearn to fit in here… too bad I don’t, nor do I care to own one!

[(-D]

[last_mountain_easter]

[:-^]

Garry Du Puis,

What are you doing up at this time of the morning and worryimg about such stuff ?

I have an excuse, I am really sick and feeling very shitty and can’t get to sleep because I probably slept too much through the day.

I like Katos too and I just let the rest of it slide on. mine are HO.

Get some sleep Guy, you are a growing boy/man. Rest well.

Johnboy out…

[riogrande5761]

Jim,Actually a lot of the early RTR was built up BB engines with thin plastic handrails,then came the newer RTR with some details and improved drive…The early run of RTR GP35 and RS3 was very spotty and a high risk roll of the QC dice.

For sure. And I have acknowledged that the earlier RTR stuff suffered from higher incidents of problems, mainly in the chassis.

Now the improve SW1000 and SW1500 is without a doubt a top line model except for the few with the warp handrails and Athearn replace those when notified of the problem…My SW1500 is a very smooth and quiet runner that I would put up against any brand.

My Athearn RTR GP38-2s,GP40-2,GP60Ms SD38,SD40 and SD40-2 are all top performers.

I’m just gun shy of their Geneses line and some of their RTR boxcars.

Yes, and your testimony is more constant with my knowledge of Athearn than Mr. Corbets is. Nice to hear another person chime in on Athearn - there are a lot of nice diesels from Athearn RTR. Most of what I own are SD45’s and tunnel motors form the RTR line. I haven’t had a chance to run all my Genesis, but my GP9’s run very smooth so far. I"m looking forward to the D&RGW GP40-2’s this august to compliment my Atlas GP40-2’s.

[quote user=“jecorbett”]

If there are only one or two bad reviews and dozens of good ones, a person reading the reviews would get the idea that those giving bad reviews were just unlucky.

Based on what I have read in this thread, my experiences with Athearn are not unique. A number of reviewers have had issues with them.

If we only offer positive reviews of products and keep our bad experiences to ourselves, that’s not fair to the companies that consistently produce quality products because the companies with QC issues will be getting the same positive reviews as the companies that have earned