everything you read here should have a little disclaimer at the bottom
"the statements above are the opinion of the author and may have absolutely no relevance to your situation "
in other words do what you want to do , we’re just telling you what we think works best .
Chip;
Your reserch seems to be going great,keep at it,LOOKING good[^][:p]
JIM
I got into this hobby because my 8 year old autistic son showed an interest in trains. I built a 4x8 layout with a couple circles a few spurs and a yard. There are 17 turnouts and lots of different directions to run a train. He was bored within a week. I lasted longer, I think because I had spent 5 months building it. Now it sits in the basement virtually unused. What I planned to be my connection with my son did not get off the ground. But still he likes trains. He plays with his Tomas the Tank Engine wodden set and interacts with it showing creative imagination.
My 4x8 plan.
Lower Level
Upper level.
So my goal is to make a layout that will regain his interest. My best guess is to create a railroad that has a purpose. The railraod you see above had the sole purpose of running trains.
Disclaimer: My opinions, although strongly stated all too often, are just my opinions. My wife gives me great practice at being ignored.
GearDrivenSteam,
Your layout shows a lot of creativity. In fact, it looks like many layouts in the classic book, “101 track plans”. This was an extremely popular book - seems like nearly everyone has a copy.
Layout design has evolved a bit since that book came out. Today, many refer to layouts like yours and many of those in 101 TP as “bowl of spaghetti” layouts. It’s not meant to sound derogatory. But you have to admit, there’s a lot of track on your layout going every which way, which looks sort of like a bowl of spaghetti!
Something I’ve noticed in Model Railroader magazine, is most of the best modern layouts have fairly simple track plans, with narrow benchwork that could easily be reached.
Check out Joe Fugate’s layout at http://siskiyou.railfan.net/ - click on Track Plan.
This is a big layout, with some cool double-deck tricks. But notice how the track plan itself is pretty simple. Everywhere where you’ll be standing, you see the track go from left to right, or vice versa. You never see a bunch of loops, etc.
In a loggig line, you’ll certainly have more loops, etc, but it’s definately something to think about.
Everyone is trying to help you out because they know you’ll invest a lot of time and effort into your railroad.
But as everyone has said, just make sure you have fun…
If you don’t like your track plan, you’ll likely scrap it before much scenery work gets done, etc., and start over anyway.
Have fun!!!
Gear,
I have a friends who model the Westside and know many Westside fanatics. Very cool choice. The Westside was a narrow guage railroad. They had dual gauge trackage at the mill/engine shed area. I point this out just as a reference and not as advice as to which gauge you should be using.
I would suggest reading a couple of books on the operation, there are many books on logging in the Sierras, and let your track plan develop over time.
Gear,
I thought your original plan was perfect for a logging railroad, remember the logging company was’nt going to spend alot of money on switchs and sidings for what was going to be a temporary operation, I would make the yard a little longer and combine it with a large wooden saw mill and then dot the rest of the layout with really rustic logging camps, big 5% grades , tunnels and lots of trees.
above all have fun!
bill
No one was slamming the plan. Just about everyone in the hobby has built a layout only to be unhappy with it after a few months. We learn lessons along the way and pass on what we’ve learned. For most of us, a layout is more likely to keep our interest if the trains operate in a way that is similar to the prototype. This does not necessarily mean a complicated track plan or a 20 by 30 space. There are some great prototypical plans in small spaces.
As far as you latest plan goes, it addresses some of the operational problems of the initial plan. I like it. You do have a duck under. Hopefully that’s not a problem for you. But that’s one of the things with layout planning; we solve one problem but are left with another. Ultimately it’s a trade-off.
Here’s another idea.
The yard is obvious. I’m thinking of the logging operation at the branch on the upper right, at a fairly steep grade. Then having to come all the way around and inside the inner loop and back into the sawmill at the left. Another industry could be on the right.
I like it too, but -
Gears,
This is not an attempt to one-up, rather I’m using my lumber operation as an example. IT is not close to finished by any means and I hope others here will help with design once I get it closer. You’ll note it is about the same space as yours.
There are three operational sites. In the upper left is the sawmill and the yard. In the prototype the railroad and the lumber company were the same. In the lower center there is a track with a runaround, that is the log loading site. On the right, there are two parallel lines, the logging camp. These correspond roughly to the three pictures I posted earlier.
With those three sites, the following operations can occur. First following the logs.
Logs are loaded on to skeleton cars at the loading site and hauled to the logging camp by Shay. The Shay also picks up emptys and takes them up to the loading site. It also hauls up the men to do the work. A 2-6-2 comes up from the mill hauling empty skeleton cars, drpops them off and hauls the log cars to the mill log dump. It dumps the logs and stores the empties for the next run to the logging site.
Supplies are also needed by the logging site and box car is attached to the empties going back up to the logging camp. The men at the loggin camp need R&R and so they are hauled to the town.
Finsihed lumber is loaded at the mill into boxcars and hauled off to the rest of the world. Empty box cars and supplies are brought back from the rest of the world.
Engine service is performed at both the logging camp and the mill.
I plan 5 engines for this operation, which I figure was about right for the prototype. A 2-6-0 running logs up and back from the lumber camp. A 2-6-0 running lumber to the rest of the world. A 2-6-0 switching in the yard. A shay running logs fromt the loading site to the logging camp, and a 4-4-0 passenger service running workers and pa
Right. So do I . I might be model railroader green, but this old boy ain’t stupid. I ain’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I ain’t the dullest one, either. I certainly want realistic operation. While you do have more space than I, my space is somewhat comparable. My suggestion for your layout would be to connect the point to point runaround you have so that you could run trains. But see, I know that’s not prototypical or realistic…BUT it’s closer to what I want to do. At least that way, the option does exist for you to run trains constantly. Yeah, yeah, I know. It ain’t necessarily prototypical. And you’re right. Lastly, I have to ask you about something. Will you have access holes? If not, I feel sorry for you if you have a derailment at the lower right. I still have yet to get my 48 Top Notch Plans book. I’m sure there’ll be a lot of good ideas there. If I keep pluggin away at it, I’ll get it sooner or later. With yalls’ help anyway.
I was beeing a bit unfair in that I was taking my lumber operation out of context. I actually have a lot more space, and even though what I showed you is the centerpiece of the layout, it is not everything.
The above is just the lower level. It has a second level and two staging areas. The staging areas represent the rest of the world.
Although this is point-to-point rail, by using a reverse loop on the upper level and by having a double ended staging area below the main yard to the right, I can have contiuous running, leaving the lumber area out. I had originally included the lumber area in the contiuous run by connecting it with the staging area below, but I eliminated that loop it made the center section very dense and too complicated.
I have not really solved the continuous run issues though. Because I like to listen to the trains run while I work on the models and every solution I have found so far requires human intervention, I need to keep working on it.
Like I said though, I am a long way from having a satisfactory layout. In a lot of ways, we are really in the same boat. My lumber operation was really a lot like yours until a couple people on this site got me reading.
Although a number of books were very helpful. Logging Railroads of the West. by Adams. Narrow Guage Nostalgia, by Turner. Glory Days of Logging, by Andrews, Time/Life Books The Loggers, what really turned it around for me was that photo site I mentioned before. I spent a couple days downloading pictures off that site. There are pictures of just about any time of logging operation from the 1890’s to the 1940’s. You don’t need to pick the operational sites I did. There are other ways you can go. This site just showed me the operation and what it was like to be a logger in the West.
CHIP This is “N” scale is’nt it??
Jim
No, it’s very dense HO. (Matches the builder that way.)
Gear, I’m going to jump in and say that I think you are doing just fine. If you were to ensure that you had at least two ‘work’-type functions on your layout, plus and additional servicing facility, your layout should give you many hours of pleasure.
Consider an engine servicing facility (without a detailed understanding of your plan, I’d like it at your upper right spur). Adding a turntable and roundhouse will give lots of needed working function to your layout…variety.
The only other thing I’d be sure to leave myself is access to those hard-to-reach spots in case of train troubles.
If you are getting a big bee in your bonnet to start building, then go for it. I think what we are hoping you’ll not do is come to regret your haste. However, at some point, ya gotta s**t or get off the pot…right?
I like version two best but version three has potential. One thing I’d do for version three is put a run-around on the part of the inner loop that leads to the sawmill and other siding. This way when you are returning the empties to the logging operation the shay can pull the empties out of the sawmill, then, on the run-around, get to the head of the train so it can travel in a counter-clockwise direction (opposite the way it came) to the logging operation.
I’m dense. Splain what you mean by runaround…and exactly where you’re talking about putting it.
A runaround is a dual section of track where the engine can run around the train to get to the back. You will need this function to push cars into your “other industry” on the right. You will also need one near your yard as once you head in, you won’t be able to get back out. If you have a runaround by the yard, you can run around the train and pu***he cars into the yard.
Gear,
I just got started in the hobby this year and all I have so far is some benchwork and a little track laid down. Like you, I was interested in doing a logging themed layout but have since changed my mind and am in the process of rethinking the whole thing. Thats ok, I believe… its part of it. I guess some people know exactly what they want and can sit down and design it on paper or computer, go to the room and build the sucker the first time without any changes. Actually I don’t think those people exists UNLESS it’s their umpteenth layout in their lifetime and they do know what they want and where to put it. Maybe some of the comments that ‘sounded’ like slamming came about because they can only see track, no plan of what goes where and how it will work. I’ve found its helpful with these fellas to draw circles and arrows and good descriptions or else they’ll send you to the Group W bench… [(-D] I’m kidding about that last part.
JaRRell
P.S. Hey Mouse, thanks for the link to the photos!
A run-around is pretty much the same as a passing siding or a dual section of track. I am suggesting you put one on the top section of your inner loop. What it will allow you to do is pull the cars out of your sawmill (on the left) and whatever industry you choose on the right hand siding. Once the cars are out of the siding you unhook your engine, drive past the respective switch, throw the switch, then drive past the train to the next switch, drive past the switch, throw it, and back into the other end of the train. This way you are returning to the logging operation or yard in the opposite direction from which you came. This is more realistic than going west to arrive at a point that is east.
Having a run around track in your yard allows you to pull in engine first, un-hook, pull forward past the switch, throw the switch, change directions and exit the yard on the run-around track.