Hi folks,
I’ve been giving some thought to replacing an old Digitrax Super Chief I have with something new. My reasons are primarily the following:
(1) Looking for something easier with regards to consisting
(2) Move to wireless
When I add up the costs to upgrade to wireless, I’m half way to the cost of a new system. I’ve been giving some thought to NCE and CVP’s Easy DCC and curious what the group thinks?
Any feedback is appreciated!
Consisting is simply putting one engine onto the right throttle, another engine onto the left throttle of your DT400.
The Cheif will consider whatever you have assigned to the right hand throttle as the “Boss” or Lead engine in any new consist that you may build.
Hitting the MU Button will yeild a question on your DT400 to merge (Consist) the left hand throttle’s engine to that on the right side throttle.
I’ll stop at this point to avoid any confusing between left and left… erf… right.
Pre-built consists can be “Stacked” with each lead engine’s number on the throttles.
Are you building and breaking consists rarely and get frusterated? Or are you building and breaking consists in your sleep?
It is easier to install radio (Wireless) into a existing Cheif set up than it is to buy a whole new system and learn it’s limitations and capabilities all over again.
I agree with SV. You already have the base system. You just need a radio receiver and to upgrade your DT400 to radio–which cost like $50.
IF you want the digital readout, add a Zephyr to your system.
I’ve got an NCE PH pro, and find consisting with it very easy. But then I’ve not used the other products.
With the NCE cab, there are 4 keys in the Consist section: Setup, Clear, Add, and Del.
You press Setup and are prompted for the consist number, but it’s defaulted to the highest available number, so normally you just press Enter.
Then you’re prompted for Lead Loco, then Fwd/Rev. Next you are prompted for the Trailing Loco, then Fwd/Rev. Then for any Mid Locos, then (if one or more are entered, Fwd/Rev for each).
You run the consist using either the Lead or Trailing loco number, with Fwd/Rev adjusted automatically, so if you end a point-to-point run, you can just address the other end, unless you’d rather run in reverse.
When you run a consist, the top display reads “Con nnnn” instead of “Loc nnnn”; otherwise all operations are the same.
Later, you can Clear the whole consist, or Add or Del individual locos by referring to either the Lead or Trailing loco number, or the consist number.
And, of course, the command station “remembers” each consist between sessions.
I added radio to my SC and cannot imagine anything better, though I am sure some of the others are as good. Half way to something else, is still 1/2. I double head engines that are not nearly equal in speed and the DT400R does that really nice. By have the speed readout, I can know what speed number on one engine will run well with any other.
Agreed. I have an SC Radio system w/DT400 radio and consists are a piece of cake. I have multiple consists and when I selct the lead locomotive, it tells me it is the Top unit. I can add/delete locomotive with 1 or 2 button pushes. I’ve run 4 unit consists with no issues. Remembering consists is automatic between operating sessions, even without a battery installed.
Halfway to a new system less the radio. The CVP Wireless system is nearly $500 plus the cost of a transformer, and that’s only a 3 amp system. The radio upgrade for your DT400 is $50, there’s no penalty for upgrading to radio later as the $50 is the exact price difference between a DT400 and DT400R. Plus the UR91 and you have radio without changing anything else.
–Randy
I can give you a little feedback on CVP. Their new T9000E throttle provides battery life of 80 hours of continuous service and does not requires “plugging in” to acquire and dispatch locos. Other than that I cannot think of any advantages over Digitrax, and CVP radio is certainly more expensive.
I’m not sure how they compare with regard to consisting.
Unless your “old” Super Chief is defective is some way, it would seem to make the most sense to upgrade it to radio. If your method of operation is not hindered by the “plugging in” requirement then it looks like a no brainer to stay with Digitrax.
It’s interesting how each persons needs can be so different. For me, the “plugging in” requirement would greatly reduce the freedom and pleasure of how I can quickly switch back and forth between various locos (and sound box cars) with my CVP throttle. I run solo and often want access to several locos and may want to switch back and forth frequently.
On the other hand, I wish that I could program from my T9000E. Most of my consists don’t change very often but I do often consist in my sound box cars so I have to go to another throttle to do that, or any other programming. The nice thing about the DT400 is that you can do everything with one throttle.
So, it just boils down to what your specific needs are, and what your budget allows.
SEE! SEE! I picked a sytem thats has something the more advanced ones don’t have!
You might note that the wireless NCE PH Pro system does everything wirelessly that it does when plugged-in. Programming, manipulating consists, acquiring locos, operating stationary decoders & macros; all functionality is identical.
OK, if you want the most up-to-date NMRA standards in the market and easist with regars to consisting, nothing fly pass the new MRC Prodigy Advanced 2 (Squared). Just go mine lat week in additional to my PA that I already have on my other layout.
Nothing is easier for consisting loco’s. It’s as easy as punch in consist number and then add loco’s. I can’t confirm yet but I believe the new NMRA standards also include the ability to remove a loco within a consist.
It’s economical and yet VERY powerful. Comes with a 3.5A power supply and yes, that’s included in the price!
What’s more, it’s a true ‘plug-n-play’ system. Got my up and running in less than 5 min.
rrinker,
Pondini’s description of how to consist with NCE PHPro is accurate. I’ve used both NCE and Digitrax (radio too) systems. The NCE is much, much, much, simpler to consist, add locos to a consist, delete locos, and to clear an entire consist. The consisting menu on NCE will walk you through each step of creating a consist. An advantage NCE has by use a 2 line display screen that prompts you through the process.I’ve shown new users how to create a consist and they instantly figure it out without me needing to show them anything more than were the buttons are.
Since you’ll also looking at radio/wireless you should consider that ALL NCE operations such as acquiring, consisting and programming on the main can be done wirelessly - there is no need to plug into a UTP. On Digitrax, acquiring a loco, consisting, and POM require the user to be plugged into a UTP. Add to this that the DT400 uses the short cord as its anntena. This means that when you plug in to do things like programming or consisting you only have about 9 inches of reach to work with. The NCE radio system is a full duplex system. Think of the Digitrax system as more synonmous with your TV remote control - it only works in one direction.
jktrain
I don’t know how easy it is on the NCE, but on my DT400 making a conisit requires that you aquire a loco on one side of your throttle then aquire a second one on your other side (the DT400 controlls two engines) Hit the MU button and answer yes. Takes maybe 5 seconds. Real tough. If you can take that down to four seconds on the NCE, I don’t see how that’s worth changing your system.
I don’t think that there is any doubt that a reliable duplex, 2-way wireless systems that does not chew up batteries at will, and provides all throttle functions is a very nice thing to have. By all accounts, NCE has now ironed out the coverage issues that were problems for some users in the past by introducing the repeater antennae. The street price for a Digitrax radio Chief system is some $50-$70 less than the 5 amp radio NCE PH Pro (assuming no repeater antenna is needed). So there is a price premium to pay to get the NCE solution compared to the Digitrax. For some it is an absolute deal breaker this duplex v simplex issue. For others it is not an issue at all and other features have more importance to them. At any given point in time either NCE or Digitrax seems to hold the technical advantage. For the last few years it has been Digitrax. I would suggest that right now NCE is in the lead. If things go to form, then at some point Digitrax will jump ahead for a while. In the mean time, there are any number of competitors, old and new, that are limbering up to take a slice of the US DCC market.
Well, until you have experience with both systems you can’t really render a complete opinion about one vs. the other. The primary difference has to do with how 'u
jk,
I have no problem believing that for you it is more important to be able to create a 5 train MU faster than I can. However, it is not tough in Digitrax to create a 2 engine MU, and the buttons are clearly labeled. The question is, is it worth it to scrap a system that the man has for that feature. It’s not like he has to look it up to figure out the dominant engine is on the right. One try and he knows.
I do know that I can jump back and forth between engines while they are moving and say, turn off the light of the second engine. I find that useful because I often will put the non-dominate engine in front because it looks better at open-houses so I want the light to work, but I want to have control of the sound on the second loco. Changing engine control is important to me and that is just one click that quick.
I don’t find Digitrax difficult and I’ve never looked at the manual. I don’t even know whether I’ve still got it or where it is if I do.
I’ve run 4 unit consists with the DT400, operated stationary controllers to enable routes ahead of the train off the same knob and controlled another locomotive or consist on the other knob with no issue. I can unplug and run them all via wireless without a hitch. That’s good enough for me. I’ve not found it difficult at all. The display will tell you which locomotive you are addressing. I agree the display units on the NCE’s are nicer looking but dual knob controls are nice. I wasn’t sure I’d like them when I purchased my SC Radio system.
As a man, I hate to shop. I bought the Chief after a year of soul searching and bothering everyone around the area… what’s this what’szit or what is that thingazig? DCC questions.
I wanted a system that is the last word and still is upgradeable to radio at some point in the future. For the money I have in the system in total I would hate to scrap it for another system with features I already use regularly.
I don’t recall making any comments on consisting in this thread.
I dont see any on this thread.
Me thinks there is some kind of two systems war going on here.