Well, Guys I am new around here. But have been around Model Railroading sence my youth with my uncle and grandpa. I am now 27 and got a 2 year old son, and convinced my wife of letting me build a layout in the basement for the two boys. My son loves to watch trains go round and round and like all fathers need a little something more. This will also be my first true layout in HO scale. It will be set in the mid west region like the hills of utah in the desert. I Got to keep the big loop. Also the turn radius is at 20inchs min. and trying for a grade of 2.5% or less.
Well I am look to you guys who have built and ran trains on more layouts then i have done.
well, since you asked, i think 20" radius in HO is a little too tight and there is no place to run around anything. then, again, if you kids just want to watch a train go around that plan will do the job.
I like the general idea. I think the 20" curves can work, as long as you are willing to accept that you are not going to want to run six axle locos, full length passenger cars, and other long equipment. You will almost certainly want to add a couple of passing sidings.
Suggest that you in your drawing shows the entire room you are planning to have your layout in, so it is possible to evaluate whether you e.g. have sensible access from the sides/ends of the layout to the inner part of the turnback loops (where the benchwork is 4 feet deep from the front).
No double ended sidings for having trains meet or pass each other.
Any special reason for why you have chosen the dogbone along the wall configuration and H0 scale?
Would N scale be an option?
What about having the turnback loops on peninsulas that stick out into the center of the room on both sides of the operator ?
What about a donut shaped layout where the operators are in a big cockpit in the middle of the layout, with the trains running around you?
Basically - it comes down to understanding what space you have available and what you want to do. Track plan is not bad for a continuous run display layout, as long as you can get at the innermost part of the turnback loops.
You don’t have any staging, which would be nice to have because as is there is little train capacity and presently there is no effort to represent connection with the rest of the North American railroad system. The little stub yard you label as “staging yard” is inadequate unless you run just trolleys or doodlebugs. (Staging tracks should hold whole trains.) It also occupies premier space better used for something else.
I definately concur with the previous observations on (a) a need for some passing sidings and (b) the need for some interchange track(s) connecting to the “outside world”. Widening the minimum radius even to 22" instead of 20" would help… 24" better yet. With a 20" radius larger (aka more modern) equipment will either look odd or be difficult to operate. Although larger equipment will operate, with a 20" radius only “BB” diesels will really look appropriate (IMHO).
I think that you can work well within the basic outlines you already have. I notice an “army base” siding, and those flat cars of military tanks (or whatever) will need to go somewhere or come from, so one or more connection/interchange tracks is really recommended. That center “yard” section could be reworked, and perhaps then a track coming out of that yard to the right on the drawing and curving down the right peninsula could be one of those interchange tracks.
Sketch out a few more options and look at a few more plans in the various magazines and sources. What you have is a credible start. Enjoy.
Stein is right, we need a room plan to go with your proposed (draft) design along with some more givens and “druthers” (what would you want if you could). For instance, what is in the center of the “L”? Other purpose for space? (See note below) If not, a rotated “E” might be more useful, especially for that interchange and staging area.
While Dad wants more than trains running round and round, the sons may outgrow that as they get older too. Some thought should be given to what this might be (or not) in five or six years.
Note: Have you considered lighting, dust prevention, moisture, heat, etc? if the space is used for other things.
I agree with Stein, we need to know the dimensions of the room. A 20 inch radius is REALLY TIGHT!!. You could run 2 axle diesels or for steam power, maybe a 2-8-0 consolidation. Does your train plan have to be continuous run? It might be for your 2 years old son to enjoy (and you with him). I agree with the need for passing sidings which should be as long as the longest train you plan to run. There are not a lot of industrial spurs for switching but again that may be the idea. I think that you will find that if you build your proposed layout, you will become bored in a short period of time. Running trains in circles is fun, initially. After the initial thrill is gone, so may your interest. At least you have picked a geographic region. This should also lead you to geographical prototypes. Have you considered what kind of freight your railroad will handle? Also, what time period (era) have you chosen? The answer to these questions will help you with equipment, motive power, and industries to be served.
If your primary goal is a to very quickly set up something to amuse a two year old who likes looking at moving trains, just get an N scale train set with sectional track, and either set up a temporary oval on the dining room table once in a while, or fasten the track using latex caulk to a 3x5 foot piece of foam or plywood.
It might be a good idea to ensure that there is a table cloth of some kind on the table (or something soft on the underside of the layout) before you put stuff on a nice table, so you don’t create scratches that annoy the CEO.
Of course - it is not at all given that the original poster just wanted to amuse a two year old. It is not totally unlikely that he might be like the rest of us - using the kids as an excuse for why the family really needs to get a layout
Anyways - we now need some more input from the original poster - in particular about the size and configuration of his room, the choice of modeling scale and what kind of stuff he wants to be able to do on his layout (run more than one train? What kind of train lengths? and a few other such questions).
Also, most likely, the “staging yard” is misnamed - that looks more like like a (too too) small switching yard of some kind, rather than hidden storage tracks for holding entire trains until they are supposed to make their entrance on visible part of the layout, to simulate a train arriving from “somewhere else”, or to make a departure from the visible part of the layout, to simula
a two years old needs one of those wooden trains; playing on the floor where his parents are. And they can be run by electronics as well to day.
When he is about 7 yrs old a Marklin train on the floor will do its job for a long time. A N-scale train is way to small for their fingers. If dads wants his own empire; he should have a honest debate with his wife. Let’s hope she is is more intelligent then our OP thinks she is.
The OP did not state that the layout was exclusively for his kids - he said he wanted to build something that would be of interest to him too.
And I did not state that an N scale layout is suitable for a two year old to play with.
A train toy appropriate for a small child to play with (as opposed to just watch or maybe just changing the speed of until they get bored with watching and running trains - which can take as little as a few minutes or few hours, and can last for months or years, depending on the child’s personality and how often he gets to watch the trains run or control the throttle) is indeed those wooden toy train sets.
Some kids (like my youngest son) stay fascinated by trains for years.
Early HOG style wooden train layout, withtwo tables that fit inside each other, with the smallest containing shelves for all the tracks and stuff, and two boards that form the long sides of the oval. Collapses to about 6x3 feet when not in use, and gives a nice big area for playing when in use:
Two parallel around the room loops in a small 6.5 x 11.5 foot room, so the kids could race against each other:
A temporary bent dogbone layout set up for a birthday party in our living room:
There are tons of different ways of rigging up a child’s train layout quickly.
No offense, but you might need an appointment with the eye doctor if you see a “good looking” bald guy in that picture [:D]
But sure, that’s me and our two boys in the middle picture. My oldest, who now is 11, has lost his interest in trains again - it lasted for 4-5 years, and then he moved on to new interests - currently it is Lego Bionicles, starting to edge towards Lego robots, and who knows from there.
My youngest is still pretty much a train fanatic at age 8. We both stopped to look, listen and not the least - to smell the smoke, as the flag man on our small town local steam museum railroad halted traffic into the parking lot of one of our shopping malls, allowing the mid-day 45-minute passenger round trip to cross over the road and back in by the old passenger depot to disembark passengers, run the tank engine around the four old passenger cars, and get ready for the next round trip.
Hopefully the Original Poster in this thread will also have kids that will continue to enjoy watching trains - both model trains and real trains - for a long time.
Ok guys, Sorry about the delay in responding to the posts. Life here is a bit crazy at the moment the ceo of the house is preggy and due in like 4 days. Been busy doing the last minute hunny do list. Also it has taken me a little bit to do a revamp of the layout. As for the wooden train for the little one. Check got that, he is tired of it already.
The room being used is a section of the basement that is unused at the moment. But part of it has to remain open for the wife/daughters doll house, and a walk way to the laundary room. Oh and the Red unusable area is were the sump pump piping is that i am putting a building or mountain over.
There is no set era that the place is set in more a fictional line that uses what ever they have on hand. Diseal or Steam what ever is avaible. I know I want a section of track that rises and weaves like it is moving threw the hills and rock formations and crossing over the main track a few times.
Alright boys here is the updated layout. All turns are min 22 inch radius. there is a new main line drag in purple and has no change in elevation. Currently working on how to layout the staging yard w/ a engine shed. The city changed to only being 4.75 inchs above the main area of the layout. The city edges will the side of a mountian with tunnel openings. I did add a run around for when i want to run a small switching run. The Elevated run will swing threw the hills and rock croppings.
Mmm - well, with the plan you have there, you will get quite a bit of track that rises and weaves and crosses over the main line.
Curve radii looks okay. Can’t make out the elevation numbers on the drawing, but a loop and crossover is doable for a turnback loop in H0 scale - you need a minimum of about 3" difference between the top of the tracks below and the bottom of the construction above, and a circle with radius 22" has a run length of about 2 * 22 * PI = 138". Rising 3" in 138 (3/138) is about 0.021 - or about 2%. Should work just fine.
The light blue elevated track - I take it that is also inclined. You talk about your city being at 4.75" elevation. So you need to rise a little more than 1.75" in about 40" (4 squares of 10") - that’s about 0.043 - bit on the steep side, especially since that does not allow room for vertical easements - letting the inclines start and level out more gently towards the ends, and be steeper in the middle.
You generally want to stay below 3% incline. Engines ability to pull drops off very quickly as you pass about 3% incline. An engine that laughts at 10 cars up and around a 22" curve on 2% incline may struggle to pull two cars up and around a 5% incline.
If you want to make it that steep, make sure you get the engine you want to run and some typical cars and do some testing to ensure that your engine can handle the number of cars you want. It might work for your desired train length and your desired engines. Or it might not.
I’d recommend doing a test by temporary fastening a little straight track with a 22" curve at the
I thought cheesehead was a nick-name for the Dutch; are they crazy too?
To your layout.
I see two loops or better ovals or laps, which share a piece of single track under the city. Nice for running two trains at the same time, independent of each other. Also nice for your son; he will love the near hits. Double tracking can be an option here.
With your love-one at the throttle I foresee a lot of collisions/derailments so reach-in quality seems very important. Any longer tunnel (1 foot) or track hidden behind scenery is a potential problem area.
I don’t believe in father/son layouts; one of the pictures Stein provided is showing my way too. You see the boys playing on a low level table with a pretty simple layout; above it you can just see a corner of dads empire.
OK peps. Thank you for the in depth opinions. And it was completely what I was looking for. It showed me things that I wasn’t thinking about. It also helped to have a few minutes today to truely pull out the HO trains and some snap together track I Barrowed from a uncle and run it around in a circle with the kid, and for as much as we like to just sit back and watch we both seemed to have tired of it quickly. Him quick then I did, but hell he is Two and his attention span is like 2 mins. So yea this is going to change the layout plans already. Version 2.0 is in the works. My biggest issue at the moment is that I have hit the limitation of the demo of the AnyRail Cad system. Awsome program, just not in the budget to purchase at the moment. Train dollars have to be spent wisely. That is why some of the sidings are not completed. Figured I could wing those.
The inclines they are all at a 2.5% or less Grade. I was not willing to accept anything more then that. I am very familiar with grades. My grandfather right now is working on his layout and has been just laying track willy nilly and discovered his loco by it self can not climb the hill he put in and turns out it is like a 10% or more grade. This is one of the reasons why I am using a Cad program to figure out the grades and main line placement. What is the normal distance on a easment to a incline??? I know a turn by it self is about 1.75inchs from center lines of track and a length of about 12 inchs. All the inclined loops reach 3.4 inchs before crossing over the underlaying track. As for how the upper track sits it will be on bridges or running along the side of a cliff and shooting threw small tunnels, that looks like natural openings in the rock face maybe a 2-3 inchs long. Nothing to get a train stuck.
After I posted the new track configuration I was sitting here going, Yep going to need a access hole to the back corner some how. Not sure where. The City area I think might become like a hug
Kids are all different. Nik got his first n-scale trains at age 5, and became quite adept at getting them on and off the tracks, coupling & running cars. We went with n-scale since I wasn’t in the hobby (yet) and had no investment in any scale… n seemed nice as it took up less room.
As some poster here know (or are frustrated with us over), we’re working on layout #3… the “big one”. In the mean time we have kato unitrack tacked onto a sheet of foam on the dining room table with DCC and the buildings that we have for the new layout.
Wooden trains are great for the real little ones. In fact, we may be getting ours out again tomorrow for that “one last time before we pack them up for good”, which we’ve been saying for a couple of years.
