"Our" Place reborn! 3rd Year of adults 'n REAL Classic Trains in a special environment!

Happy New Year to the regulars at “Our” Place!

As requested by Kalmbach, the old Thread has been shut down and the new begins today, January 1st, 2007.

What’s different [?] Nothing! Same crew, same way of doing things and hopefully the same supporting cast that has kept us afloat all this time.

History: “Our” Place began on April 12th, 2005 on the General Discussion (Classic Trains) Forum.

Concept: An adult bar & grill for all who are interested in and familiar with “Classic Trains.”

The conversations are as they would be in a neighborhood bar, where people know one another and share stories, photos and other information relevant to the idea of the Forum - Classic Trains.

All of this with some humor thrown in and the rest is simple.

Objective: Have fun!

Ground rules: Leave ALL emotional baggage and “attitudes” on the front porch.

Be inclusive with your comments through the acknowledgment of the other guy’s efforts. Hit ‘n run Posts are not welcome.

Greet the bartender upon entering and order a drink or food. Pretty easy, eh [?]

Final “stats” for the “old” Thread at mid-night!

Replies: 9,013

Views: 163,151

Pages: 451

For those who may require it, the link to the “old” Thread is:

http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/451/991587/ShowPost.aspx#991587

Tom (siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]

Proprietor, “Our” Place

G’day!

A New Year and the start of a new week here at the Tavern by the Tracks! Join me in a toast to a Happy ‘n Healthy 2007 for all of our regulars and their families! [yeah]

I didn’t think that the first Post following the creation of our “reborn” Thread would be mine. Must be a lot of you out there on the mend, eh [?] Judging by the condition of our Banquet Centre (aka: Rat’s Patoot Room!) it appears last night’s staff party was rather mild compared to other events. That’s good, at least we won’t have to redecorate the place and check for structural soundness! [swg]

CHEERS from:

Frostbite the Penguin

Awk the Parrot

Tex the Armadillo

10,000th Post CONTEST results (in order of submission):

Note: Due to the closing of our original Thread and the opening of this new one, the contest ends once the combined total of Pages reaches 10,000.

Feb 14th - BK

Feb 15th - Lars

Mar 12th - Pete

Jan 1

HAPPY NEW YEAR to all the gang at “Our” Place!

G’day Cap’n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!

Ruth, I’ll take a “hair of the dog” and put aside the change for a round when the boys begin trickling in. [swg]

Nice transition to the new digs, Cap’n Tom, looks like you’ve thought of everything. But, as always seems to be the case, there’s always ONE who will get totally discombulated over this minor change of locations!

This football weekend is still going strong in my digs and I expect it to continue into the night. Football, food, drink, good cheer, happiness and good health and so forth. Something the Larsman and his family never take for granted, especially the last three. [tup] [tup] [tup]

I’m kinda waiting to see what the guys will bring forth for 2007 and am surprised at the absence of them on this day. In just looking at the list of those who participated in the current Contest, we’ve got the guys, but there’s always that down time that seemingly has wound itself into the routine around the Bar by the Ballast.

A toast to Cap’n Tom and the finest bar in cyber space! Skål (Skoal) [yeah]

Until the next time! [tup]

Lars

Good morning Tom and friends! The new place looks great, and familiar. Nice 2007 graphics from manager Lars, and I see all the critters made it, so please watch your step. Here’s a little something from me to break-in the new digs:

From January 1947 Railroad Magazine

Out of dusty archives comes this reproduction of America’s first numbered patent, a complex little gadget for stepping up tractive effort and preventing slipping on heavy grades.

On July 13, 1836, the United States issued its first numbered patent, and according to the AAR, it was for a locomotive. The patent - “designed to give a multiplied tractive power to the locomotive and prevent the evil of sliding of the wheels” - was issued to John Ruggles, United States Senator from Maine who was largely responsible for the passage of the Act of 1836, which set up the present-day American system of granting patents and administering the system properly.

Ruggles’ invention included a check rail and retreating cogs, to increase adhesion and prevent wheels from slipping; and a gear-like arrangement of wheels to multiply the tractive effort of locomotives when ascending steep grades with heavy loads. Under the patent provisions, the engine wheels were made in the unusual form, except that the rim was somewhat wider from the flange to the outside of the tread. This 1 3/4-inch extension of the rim was pierced with 24 holes, or square sockets. When not in use, the cogs were kept in place by spiral springs bearing upon their heads with sufficient force to project them outward easily when pressed up into the sockets. The springs reacted against the top of the caps, which enclose them, to protect them from mud, or other impediments to easy action.

The check rail was placed outside the bearing rails, far enough away that the rim pf the wheel could not reach it when running close to its flange. In this w

G-day [4:-)] Tom and all present.

Ruth- Could you get me a OJ and a sandwich please. Thanks.

I’mn sorry for my absence. Some things happened that I hadn’t expected. One of my friends mother died. Quite unexpected.

Had a good New years. I was watching some of the rose parade this morning and most of the bands in that parade are really cool. Some really nice music coming from them.[tup]

Anyway I justed wanted to check in and say Happy New year to everyone.

BTW: Barndad- Good little article on the improvement of tractive effort. That drawing looks really complicated. I haven’t seen anything like it before. But I would guess so, since it was used on steam engines.[tup][:)]

I’ve got a little article on tractive effort myself. Take a look at the largest steam engines tractive effort. A 2-8-8-8-4 Unbelievable!![:O]

Tractive effort: (abbr. TE) is the pulling force exerted, normally by a locomotive, though the term could also be used for anything else that pulls a load. It is normally understood to be the actual force on the locomotive’s drawbar or rear coupler. When a bare figure for tractive effort is quoted without a speed qualification, this is normally for starting tractive effort, i.e. at a dead start with the wheels not turning.

In most cases, especially for steam locomotives, this figure is a

Good afternoon Captain Tom and all present!!

Happy New Year to all of You!!!

Hello Leon, I think I start the new year with a juicy Filet Mignon, please. Could you ask Boris to bring a large glass of the spiked OJ? Thank you!

Just stopping by for something to eat. I will be back later tonight with an inclusive post. This place looks like brand new!

Yesterday we (i and the mrs) went on a liitle trip south of Phoenix and look what I found!

A car from a very classic train, the California Zephyr! Parked outside Amtrak’s station in the town of Maricopa, south of Phoenix. It seems to be used as some kind of bar/restaurant but it was closed yesterday.

I’ll be back later!

Eric

G’day Gents!

I see some of you are finally awakening and finding your way to the Tavern by the Tracks! Well, it IS a holiday, and therefore taking it easy is the first rule to follow. [yeah]

Speaking of which, I note that no one has made mention of the Posts made on the last day over on the “original” Thread. Some good stuff there and certainly worth checking out and making mention of. Remember, we STRIVE to be inclusive at this Thread!! I brought the tweeter along with me from the other site. [:O]

We’re starting anew here - so the “ground rules” are right above these comments. No excuses!

So Doug, did I or did I not “win” your quiz on that diagram [?] Perhaps you missed my 2nd “shot” at it over on the “original” site. Anyway, some sort of mention - honorable or not - would be nice! Hey! That was quite a “list” you provided - I could ‘relate’ to several of the categories. [swg]

Sorry to say that there’s just a wee bit of overkill for today’s reading matter from Doug 'n James - have to save it for tomorrow. But, your contribtions ARE appreciated. [tup] [tup] [tup]

Thanx for stopping by, Lars, just wouldn’t be “right” to kick off this “new” Thread without our Manager! [tup] [tup] [tup]

Eric, that’s a fine Pix of the Silver Horizon observation dome car! [wow] I note that it was a CB&Q car used for the California Zephyr - a collaborative route amongst pariticipating roads. Nicely done! [tup] [tup] [tup]

The only operational units left that I’m aware of are all

Good evening Mr Leon, I think I will partake in a Keith’s and if there are any left some of the finger foods from the staff party, No Boris not the “fingers” you found out beside your shed [xx(] I had hoped that witht he transition to this new thread that my no tool bar problems would go away, alas this has not happened, oh well jumbled posts for the forseeable future [tdn]Doug Nice little story on the Ruggles invention , I wonder if it was he or a family member that started up the Ruggles Car Company which manufactured passenger cars and street railway equipment, something to look into. Eric Quite a nice find on your lil excursion into Phoenix , nice to see a Budd product still serving out a somewhat usefull purpose [tup] James Nice start to the new year a fine post on tractive effort calculating, bit heavy for my brain to comprhend just now however [:-^] lars Nice to see you in this morning as well,I noted that the football watching was in full swing on the lower floors of my sisters house while the rest of us packed in the new years food in snacks this afternoon, for me I just waited for the hockey game to start. sorry CM3 My team kind of manhandled the Bruins this day. Tom top oh the er evening sir, nice to see that things are progressing again this day at Bar MK 2.I noticed that we have managed to pick up many a look in already over 80 at the time of my arriving, so far no unpleasantness, a good sign thus far fer sure fer sure. Hopefully it will saty that way. I’m going to go over and attempt once again to read the finals over at Bar Mk1. Rob

Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!

And good morning to you Leon! Do you think I could have a Rumpsteak Café de Paris despite the early hour? Great, thank you. No rush!

Some more activities at the bar this first day of the new year than yesterday! Except for some football it has been a kind of slow day.

Doug – I guess you couldn’t see that game in 1955 then! A lot of young people here![:)]
I think you should leave the big rocks where they are. Don’t break your back.

I looked at that drawing and the only thing I could figure out was that it had to be some kind of gear for a locomotive. Well, it was not a gear so I am glad I didn’t reveal my hmm, lack of knowledge. 1837, no doubt it was for a steam engine!

I agree with what Joe G. Collias wrote, sand is very important for a locomotive to keep it rolling all the time. Southern’s Ps-2 #1231 was from the beginning a Ps. As far as I can tell #1317 was a Ps. Nice pictures![tup]

A lot of interesting facts about Americans![wow]

Mike – Those url’s did not work for me. Nothing came up. [%-)]

Tom – Good job transfering everything and every body to the new old Our Place!!! The important thing is that it is still there![yeah]

1955, you have a good memory! I actually also remember soem things that happened that year (but no ball game).

Good movies (as always) playing at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre! I have seen both of them. [:)]

Thanks for the pictures! Both from the 1st rendevouez and from Alaska! Oh, I almost forgot the one from Rock Hill! [tup]

Lars – Nice book covers, as always. It is a

foto credit: www.viarail.ca

G’day Gents!

Tuesday and the appearance of things returning to normal as the Christmas-New Year’s holiday season draws to a close. People heading back to work ‘n school, while others continue on with vacation time, or in SOME cases, retirement!

As always, check out the pastries in The Mentor Village Bakery case and the Menu Board selections for our 'n breakfasts. Wash it all down with a freshly ground 'n brewed mug of cofee 'n , then sit back and take in the conversations going on here at the Bar by the Ballast! [tup] [swg]

Most pleased to see some semblance of the “routine” here at the Saloon by the Siding and of course I didn’t expect a “rush” to the doors yesterday. It was difficult enough for some simply to open their eyes!

So, what’s on tap ‘round here today [?] Not much, as we’ll resume the Tuesday Theme for the Day next week. Pretty much whatever one wants to bring up today. [tup]

Rob at 12:05 AM today: Thought you were still experiencing the ravages of the Format-Scurvy. [tdn] However, not seeing you for a couple of days over the long weekend is hardly what we should expect from our Bar Chandler. You’ve got a New Year and another shot at restoring your position ‘round here, otherwise to the “shed” with ya!

Formatting: Just my thoughts BUT have you tried everything available to you regarding this problem [?] Seems to me it has to be an “issue” between your ‘puter and the “recognition” of the Forums. “Bugs” get into the registry and other places that can and do cause difficulties. So, my recommendation is t

G’day Cap’n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!

Ruth, a frosty mug of Schaefer and slide the snack tray down my way, wudja please [?] Keep the change, my deAH, you’ve earned it around this morgue.

So, the New Year has begun and the sails are still slack during daylight. Have to drift until the night winds perk us up.

Good to see Eric & Rob from the wee hours and I suspect we’ll see a trickling back for a few more as this day passes. What happened to Pete [?] Thought he was supposed to be back with us on Monday [?] I mean the Chiefs WON their game, made the playoffs and all should be well. C’mon back, Wolfman, we sure could use some activity here at the bar. I’ll even spring for your favorite brew! [yeah]

Nice Via Rail photo for your morning “mast head,” brings back some fond recollections of your Daily Summaries. By the way, I miss those, BUT realize they are labor intensive and since we haven’t the clientele of days gone by, what’s the point [?] They were entertaining and chock full o’ info for us, though. [tup]

Really liked those Pix you provided over on the “old” thread - MKI as Rob refers to it. Anyway, I don’t think we’ve seen a couple of 'em. Don’t recall seeing the Mt. McKinley shot - which by the way is outstanding. No doubt someone will come along and “swipe it” for their own. Anyway, nicely done, Sir! [tup] [tup] [tup] Also, that “threesome” pix of you, Rob & Ted at the tavern says it all! Sure wish I could’ve been with you, but there’s Rendezvous II coming up this May. Something to look forward to. [tup]

I did a bit of browsing the forums today and it seems that you managed the transition from old to new without a hitch. Some threads needed to have the “Vossman” make the final post, whereas you took care of everything. Why am I surprised [?] That’s why you’re the skipper 'round here! [tup] <

Hi Tom and all.

Youse guys. I go away for a few days , come back, and we have moved house, although Our Place looks exactly the same, BORIS, TEX, AWK and FROSTBITE are all still here. There is RUTH and LEON looking after us and [4:-)] TOM is still the Landlord [^][tup].I dare say it is a lot easier reading about the change after it is all over[yeah], and that we can get to read the wonderful store of knowledge from the old thread has to be the best news of all[tup][tup][tup].The RDC Encore from CM3 from page 2 that Tom posted is a great example.

Mr. Voss seems a good guy[tup] and that is a great honor for the new thread[^].

As I see TOM has brought the Tweeter over, I had better order a beer, a pint of Holden’s Mild after the festivities please RUTH and a round to celebrate A HAPPY NEW YEAR for all.[tup].

The old bar was busy up to New Year’s Eve with great posts[^].

A late [bday]to CM3, hope you are back at the bar soon[tup].

ERIC Thanks for the trolley, signal and Silver Horizon Car pics[tup]. The second picture featuring the ground signal is a very simular design to that used on British Rail, although without the uppermost light.

DOUG Careful with those large rocks[:O].Loved the pics and descriptions from steam’s last days[yeah]I knew that was John Ruggles tractive effort and anti-slip device, well I did after I had read your answer

Good evening Tom and gang. I’ll have a bottomless draught, and but a round for the house. I see some more of the clan have located the new digs. I forgot to compliment Tom on his trolley baseball team. It was news to me. Additionally, Tom did take an accurate guess at identifying my whatchacallit … so well done sir! Wow James, are you trying to hurt my brain with complex equations? I have quite enough trouble just trying to figure out the birthday list here. Nifty pic of the Zephyr observation car. They sure are purty, aren’t they? Great to see Rob, but don’t know if the same Ruggle that designed the first patent was related to the Ruggles of the Ruggle Car Company. Fantastic to see Peter today too, who also noticed the five star rating from David Voss. And now, here’s a little SR stuff from me:

Big Dropper

Here’s a brand-new car. It is one of two built so far. Southern designed and developed it for shippers of coal, sand, gravel and other bulk products that can move in bottom-dumping open-top cars, It can carry more than 100 tons of coal or other bulk material, and it can be completely unloaded in the fifteen seconds that have elapsed since this description began. Some of our people call it “the big dropper” because the bottom can open completely from end to end or each one of the four sets of gates can be operated singly. Like our solid-bottom aluminum gondola - “Silversides” - the “Big Dipper” is designed for easy open-top loading, rugged dependability and fast-turnaround service. It can also be used like the “Silversides” and unloaded in big rotary dumpers at power plants where its load is then discharged through the top like sugar is tipped from a teaspoon. This car has 4,600 cubic feet of load space in a cargo compartment 47 ½ feet long and 10 feet 2 ½ inches

Good evening Captain Tom and all present!!

Leon, just a ham sandwich, please! Coffee, black!

My last day off today! Back to work tomorrow morning. I got kind of used to sleep in every morning last week and a half!

Tom – The electric on the picture is (former Swedish State Railways) Class Dm3 built especially to haul ore trains from the iron mines in the most northern part of Sweden (north of the Arctic Circle) to Narvik on the Atlantic coast of Norway, from where the ore is shipped out to countries around the world. The locomotive is articulated electric locomotive, 9,600 hp and weighs 602,300 lbs. Length 105’10”. They were built between 1960-1970. They are now slowly being replaced by Class IORE (for Iron ore) twin units, 14,675 hp, T.E. 1,350 kN, length 149’5” and weight 793,800 lbs.

The Dm3 on the picture below is sitting outside the depot waiting for the next assignment.

Same picture again!

I don’t have any picture of Class IORE but it can be seen on a video if you click on this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k93s3GpUYIc

I guess it has to be a trip to Canada some day to ride a classic train. The picture is very nice, I am glad the deer didn’t try to outrun the train! In the old country the problem is spelled moose, especially in the wintertime. [yeah]

Lars – You are right! Rendezvous II is really something to look forward to! Just a few months away![yeah]

Pete – Welcome back and a Happy New Year![:)] It seems like yopu a good time in kansas City!

The ground signal is also very similar to the ones used in Sweden.

<

Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.

Did I say Happy New Year yet? Yes, but not since last year.

Pete, thanks for waiting to see if the semaphore pics would eventually load, and I apologize for the inconvenience.

Doug, the steam locomotives you put Sunday are beauties.

Rob, you must have memorized the codes for smileys from doing thousands of colorful posts. It sure is good to see that picture of you guys with Ted. Nice way to bring the old thread to a close.

Lars, thanks for putting the CV up there too.

James, I’m sorry that your friend lost his mom, what an awful thing to happen.

Eric, hopefully this link will connect to pictures of class IORE locomotives in Sweden.

http://www.pbase.com/jakobe/mb200504&page=1

Now this from wwwtrainweb.org:

"Tractive effort is the force that a locomotive can apply to its coupler to pull a train. In the US, it is usually expressed in pounds. Tractive effort is not often directly measured. Most locomotive builders calculate tractive effort based on a percentage of the weight placed on the driving wheels. For rod type steam engines, this factor is usually 25% for clean dry rail. It was found through tests that this factor worked quite well because most steam engines have all their drivers locked together so that slippage of an individual wheel is not possible.

Articulated engines could have half of the engine slip, as would often happen, but the 25% factor was still applied. Application of sand could increase this factor considerably.

Diesel engines can slip axle by axle. Over the years, steadily improving motor control systems have been developed to control wheel slip such that the latest batch of large diesels can apply 1000 hp per axle to the rail without serious slip. First generation diesels had trouble applying 400 hp per axle without slippage. The old 25% constant doesn’t hold well with diesels, tractive effort as measured by dynamometer cars have sho

G’day Cap’n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!

'Tis I, Larsman the Manager pinch hitting for our Proprietor this morning as he’s at the doc’s for a follow-up to his surgery. Anyway, I’ll try to keep this as organized as he does! [swg]

First, I must make comment on something that caught my eye right off the bat this morning:

from Mike this AM.

To set the record straight, it was Tom who provided those pix on the final page of the old thread. Gotta give credit where credit is due, after all, “the man” keeps this ship afloat in so many, many ways.

Good to see the guys come out yesterday and into early this AM - Pete - Doug - Eric & Mike. Formatting difficulties aside for some, appreciate seeing youse guys! [tup] [swg]

That was a most enjoyable post from Pete and we’re glad to have you back with us. Kansas City’s Union Station sounds like a great place to visit and I’m looking forward to seeing any pix you took during your recent visit. [tup]

Can you imagine what the odds must be for the Giants & Chiefs to make it to the Super Bowl??? Fuh-ged-aboud-it!

Doug, I know Tom will appreciate the acknowledgment that he got your diagram question answered correctly - in spite of making two attempts! THAT’s what inclusive conversations are supposed to be about, eh [?] You betchaboots! [tup]

Nice continuing Southern input . . .

Eric, great URLs of the X2000 and the model train layouts! [tup] [tup] [tup] Can’t say that the paint scheme does much for me, I liked the old one better. However, the video clip is entertaining! Thanks, mate!

And yes, the Renedzvous date is approaching and we can now refer to it as being in a matter of months. Surely hope

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Happy New Year to all! I will post more later when the dust settles at work. However, thanks to one and all for the birthday greetings.

work safe

G’day Cap’n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!

'Tis the Larsman back with some pix from the “old country.” Check these out while enjoying some pastries from the Mentor Village bakery, one of our “light” or “traditional” breakfasts, and of course our famous freshly brewed “Joe.”! [yeah]

Eric, I failed to make mention of something near 'n dear to my old heart (yes, I actually have one! ) Anyway, that observation dome is terrific. Would love to have it in my back yard. Wouldn’t the neighbors just go bonkers [?] [swg] Anyway, as Tom said, you must go to Canada to travel in one of those these days and I’m all for it! THAT should be what we strive for insofar as a future Rendezvous is concerned - a Bash on the Ballast, or something like that. [yeah] Nice photo, mate! [tup] [tup] [tup]

Norwegian State Railways - NSB - photo credit: Ian Britton from www.freefoto.com

(c) FreeFoto.com

Norwegian State Railways - NSB - photo credit: Ian Britton from www.freefoto.com

(c) FreeFoto.com

Norwegian State Railways - NSB - photo credit: Ian Britton from www.freefoto.com

(c) FreeFoto.com

Norwegian State Railways Class 73 EMU high-speed train - photo credit: Ian Britton from www.freefoto.com

(c) FreeFoto.com

I apologize for the insufficient background data on these pix, however, with the crew we

foto credit: www.viarail.ca

G’day Gents!

Many THANX to Manager Lars for taking care of business this morning; much appreciated! [tup][tup][tup] Things went a bit faster today than expected, but alas, more of the same in the ‘morrow!

So, what’s up ‘round here [?] Ruth, you seem rather sprightly today, must be the compliments from Lars, eh [?] Always brings a “flush” to that pretty face of yours! [swg] Gotta watch those sailors!

Let me try to catch up on the acknowledgments since my last Post:

Lars at 3:40 PM yesterday: The Larsman “came to save the day” - whattaguy! [swg] Don’t’ quite know what this place would be during the daylight hours without having your Posts! [tup] [tup] [tup]

Pete at 5:25 PM yesterday: The Wolfman returneth for 2007! [yeah] Fooled you, eh [?] A new home and a re-start at that, all while you took off for ANOTHER long weekend. Some guys just live right! [swg]

Hope you took a bunch of Pix out there in KCity, especially at Union Station. Sounds like the displays were “top shelf,” both real and model. Good material for Sunday Photo Posting Day! [tup]

Does your question regarding the Manchester Soccer (football) club and railroads have to do with Manchester having been the first place to be credited with passenger rail??? The fans traveled to/from Liverpool and Manchester to view the games, I suspect. Just a WAG on my part . . .

The 1956 baseball season was not quite the same for the Brooklyn Dodgers as it was in '55. The Dodgers lost to the Yankees in '56 and perhaps the highlight of that series was the perfect game thrown by Don Larson -

Good afternoon dear Ruth , nice to able to get in and see you on occation.I’ll just nab a Keith’s oh and some of the peanuts to please.Well still the same-o same-o formatting wise after scrub after re-scrub [tdn] still nothing , it is getting a bit tired. Tom As always thanks for the advice , still no help unfortunatly. I was able to read the final page of the MK 1, some lates thanks for the the the most recent Canadian railway history post , also nice to see our smiling faces one last time ( Blue will do that .[swg] ) I have to agree with tthe Larsman, that shot of the Elk and the Canadian are the cat’s meow ( both our cats approve , yes we added another to the mix )Mike Nice follow up on young Jame’s TE post, my we are getting more smarter around here LOL. And yes I remembered some of the smiley codes , still wish I could make it more readable for all of you. [sigh] LarsWonderfull keep us going posts today sir , loved the shots from the frozen north as well, some interesting pieces of equipmnet there, perhaps when Eric sneaks back in he can shed some light on their functions and types.Pete Good to see you sir [tup] nice to have the whole group essentially back , just missing Nick now that you and CM3 have retutrned.( happy new year to you CM3 ) To answer your question , power doors came about once air brakes came about. With most of the streetcars the doors ooriginally operated off the strait air pipes , oncethe saftey cars were designed more reliable air treadle doors and electric doors began, once the advent of the all electric PCC in the early 40’s streetcars had electric treadle and switch controlled brakes.I know clear as mud [:D] Doug Top o the afternoon to you as well, interesting hopper car, the Southen seem to me like the “Russian” railway of NA , lets see howmany gigantic car types we can make oh well interesting piece.Oh we did indeed sell our E700 to the IRM or more correctly we traded it to them for some componenets for two of our interurban