My UP roster has a gap I’d like to fill sometime with 2-3 F-series diesels, such as F3/F7. I haven’t seen anything tempting to purchase new or convert to DCC/sound. I’m also not yet ready to, for instance, tackle motor isolation or frame milling for a speaker.
Randomly looking today, I see that Intermountain plans to release some UP F3s this summer, which include Soundtraxx decoders. So I ask for opinions of what to expect from these, and others that might become available and compete for my attention, in terms of running qualities, reliability, sound, etc.
From what I’ve read in the forum on locos, I’d consider Intermountain, P2K, Atlas, Kato, Bowser, etc but wanting the UP livery narrows things down, Kato doesn’t seem to be offering much in older HO diesels lately, etc. Likely, if the Intermountains come out this year and I can expect good locos there, I’d bite the bullet if their offerings are typically pretty good.
This all presumes I don’t get shot for considering another loco purchase, as I’m already into next year’s birthday present.
I’d say go for it. If you get shot, you won’t need that next b-day anyway, so might as well take it in advance…[xx(][W][angel][;)]
Might be worth considering the slightly used/like new market in ebay. That’ll save you money and give you more choice, just not sure on the availability of UP units with sound though. You didn’t mention Genesis among the others. I’ve had generally good luck with mine and they’re mostly early units. They’re even better now.
It still might be worth considering a DIY install. Most recent offerings, in fact really just about anything in the last decade, will have the motor isolated. Usually not too big a deal if you need to and the F-unit is such a known quantity should be easy to get advice on how to deal with it.
The speaker is a little more complex, but there’s room in an F-unit without milling the frame. Lots of possibilities on how to, but definitely use an enclosure to get the most out of a speaker.
Mike, Genesis is on my list also in terms of quailty (if/when it’s offered). I’ve looked over EBay occasionally and don’t often find the right mix. Saw some FA/B items such as bodies and wrong (for me) livery items that might give me a good UP end product. I’ll keep watching that in parallel with new releases.
Intermountain makes great F units, I have a bunch and plan to buy more. I can’t speak to the issue of DCC or sound from them because I operate DC. But they are just as nice as Genesis in terms of running quality and detail. They are very, very similar in design to the Genesis units as well.
I concur. My Western Maryland F units by Intermountain are just fabulous. However, I have installed sound in Bowser and genesis F units, and its nothing to be afraid of. No need to mill the frame on either!
I see some Kato built Stewart F units (don’t know how old that akes them) on EBay that are not DCC ready. Curious how hard they would be to convert (especially the motor isolation if required). In the end, if the Intermountains are good overall the detail looks better and the cost lower to go with them, though that eliminates the decoder choice options unless more $ thrown at it.
Those units are somewhat misleadingly labeled. They’re Stewart F-units with Kato motors. Kato hasn’t made any HO scale F-units AFAIK.
I had a couple of ABBA sets of the Stewarts, but sold them before I went DCC. They run really well, but as I didn’t convert them, I can’t say how difficult motor isolation would be for them.
If they’re anythinig like all the other Kato-built Stewart locomotives, the motor is already isolated from the frame so DCC conversion is really easy, although they are not “DCC ready” with a decoder socket.
The entire frame, trucks, and motor are by Kato; not just the motor – I have converted close to 20 of them for another club member.
About the only F-units you’re going to find that need to have the motor isolated are Athearn “blue box” or old Bachmann Plus units. The Athearn ones are pretty easy - remove the motor, put down a piece of electrical tape, and reattach the motor.
On the Stewart Fs, you’re just replacing the green light board either with a light board replacement decoder, or doing a “hardwire” connection…so either you’re soldering wires to the lightboard decoder tabs, or soldering wires to the wires coming out of the decoder harness. Both are easy to do.
There isn’t much room in Stewart F A-units for a speaker. You may be able to fit a 1/2" by 1" oval speaker in the rear. I generally run F units in drawbar-connected A-B sets, so just put a 1" round speaker and enclosure in the B-unit, where there’s plenty of room.
The Athearn ‘BB’ F units motors are not isolated from the chassis. There is a contact wiper on the bottom of the motor that makes contact with the chassis. A lot of folks have been fooled by those 2 rubber ‘clips’ that holds the motor! One will need to pull the motor out and either snip off the wiper, or place something like black electrical tape on the frame to make sure the motor is isolated. All Athearn ‘BB’ engines I have worked on are built like this.
The older Stewart non-DCC ready engines have a light board with wire clips. Removing it and hard wiring the model is straight forward(as Stix mentioned). Later Stewarts have a NMRA 8 pined decoder socket.
BTW, I just looked at my Stewart ‘Kato’ F’s - there is no ‘Kato’ markings in the chassis, just the motor. So, maybe there were Kato assembled F’s, and the production migrated to just motors, and finally no Kato involement at all. Atlas has a similar story with some of their locomotives. As cost in Japan increased, the product went to China.
peahrens,
InterMountain makes a good F-unit, but they aren’t the best if only because the Athearn Genesis F-units are such great models (simply the finest F-unit model ever made in any medium). IM units are good runners and have decent detail. Their main sin is that they sit a little too high off the trucks, but that’s only really noticable when coupled to a Genesis model.
Soundtraxx makes the Tsunami brand decoder (same as in the Genesis). They have high quality sound for HO scale, tho’ some folks complain about their horns and the motor control. Not that they are bad at horns or motor control, just that they could be better like other brands are.
Proto F-units are good runners, good pullers, and have QSI sound. They have decent detailing and RR specific options. The QSI board has the volume, but the engine sounds are not top-notch.
Atlas only made FP7’s, and they haven’t made any in this century.
Kato made the drives for Stewart F-units. The Stewart/Kato F’s have the best drive, and pull the best, but detail is lacking (almost non-existant). FYI: the only old diesel that Kato ever made in HO was the RS-2…and that was in the 1990’s.
The Bowser model is the old Stewart with detail parts added. They also don’t use the Kato drive, they use their own. It’s good, just not as great as a Kato.
To sum up, you can’t go wrong with the IM F-unit. Every one I know who has one likes it.
wjstix,
FWIW, I would do more than just put down a piece of electric tape under an Athearn BB motor. At the very least, I’d cut the prongs off, as they might otherwise work their sharp little points through the tape and zap!
If it were me, I would go with a new old stock stewart model (ebay), install a loksound select decoder (mb klein) with an iphone 5 speaker (ebay). Easy peasy. Sounds great, looks great, costs less than the latest offerings and is a Kato drive to boot. Others will tell you that you need a speaker in there equivilant to a small boom box. The iphone 5 speaker is a quality piece that is no bigger than a quarter in size and about 5mm thick. It can be had for a few bucks shipped on ebay. You are not going to be rattling any glass panes, but the sound level is more than adequate to have scale sound. David B
Here is a clip of one of mt Baldwins with the configuration noted in my previous post. http://youtu.be/i08CB2xZds8 Volume is about 50% with lots of headroom. David B
I purchased Bowser sound chasis without the motor from MB Klein. I had motors from my Stewart F units. The frame is already drilled for the motor mounting so that the motor and drive train install is relatively easy. I then installed my Genesis F unit body onto the frame. This required very minor modifications that I found on the Bowser website. In one case I had to use the portal windows from the Stewart unit to fit as they take up less space then the Genesis portal windows. The frame without motor, but with decoder and speaker was very reasonably priced.
And to add-on, I noticed the post between the windshields was a bit wide for me - and others have reported noticing this too. Sometimes little things like that bother people, maybe not others but the front of any engine is important to get “right”. As it happens, so far IMR has never offered any paint jobs that weren’t availble by a Genesis, which is popularly considered to be the gold standard for getting the shape of the F unit “right”. IMR is finally offering single stripe D&RGW F’s after many long years, so I might consider taking another look.
As bad luck would have it, the only (few) diesels I have with sound all have QSI sound. =( That may change later this year as Genesis is finally coming out with some engines and I plan to pick up the Tsunami versions - saving up for them now! I have an ABBA set of D&RGW single stripe F7’s, with the modernized detail trimmings - they look pretty nice.
I believe to convert the older Stewart F units to DCC
An update. I acquired a new in box (2004) Intermountain DC F3, UP as desired, with bulb lights. I found I could get a sound F3 A unit chassis with LED lighting from Intermountain at good price, so the A shell is now on the newer DCC Tsunami frame and it is a very nice unit.
Now I have DC A unit frame and seek a new A or B shell for it and will likely add a TCS motor only decoder. I saw UP Intermountain F3 shells on Ebay earlier but of course there are none today. Intermountain advised their upcoming F3s w/sound would have Loksound so I’ll untimately have to decide on a shell plus motor TCS on the Dc frame vs a whole 2nd sound unit at about $180 street.
A word of caution: Some of the eBay InterMountain shells are ‘seconds’ (you may already have noticed that). I bought a couple of CP F series shells. One had a step broken and another had a loose screen. Both were easy to fix. However, I also noticed a couple of shells with damaged paint and lettering which would obviously not be so easy to correct. Make sure you study the pictures carefully.
By the way, InterMountain is a really great company to deal with.
Just a comment about Stewarts. KATO definitely made the chassis for the standard early Stewart F unit. After around 10 or 12 years of being on the market, Steve Stewart had the molds and tooling sent over from Japan to the US where he produced them locally until he sold the company to Bowser. It was never clear to me if the F shell was made here in the use alll along, or if that too was tooled by KATO.
Regardless, the chassis are among the best for F units, I plan on keeping most of the ones I have left. The shells, although not detailed, are still well proportioned and have been the basis for some very nice projects like those done by Jim Six and others.
Of course the Highliner/Genesis F shell is widely regarded as THE best in HO. Proto 2000 and IMR are well done also.
