Over modreration- the Don Phillips thread

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

aS A NEUTRAL NON-PARTICIPANT IN SUBJECT THREAD, I’d just like to say that in my opinion the new mods over reacted in locking that thread. Mr Phillips makes his living provoking readers to think, and it’s clear to me that he has succeeded.

Seems a shame that the magazine has grown so overly sensitive as to feel the need to shield themselves from reader feedback. I don’t think that the criticisms in question were either personal, nor excessive. The magazine should be pleased, in fact, that their works are followed by the readers, and can inspire customer interest the way Mr Phillips invariably does

The Moderators have punished the readers here, for daring to have a passionate opinion about magazine content [X-)]

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Somebody tryin’ to be a hero.

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Hero or not. I have to agree that locking the thread was over moderating. Don Phillips is a by lined public figure in the reportage of rail topics and as an editorial style of author his very aim is to provoke thinking and conversation, both pro & con, to the ideas he presents. There was nothing in the locked thread that was anything other than thoughtful comments, pro & con, concerning the situation.

If Trains doesn’t want Mr. Phillips articles and positions commented on in this forum I would suggest that Mr. Phillips articles are no longer need to be published in Trains. Since Mr. Phillips history includes employment with the Washington Post I am sure the comments of this forum pale to any that Mr. Phillips has suffered throughout his journalism career.

4

Maybe there were some comments that lead the conversation in the wrong direction and they got deleted and then the thread was locked to keep it from being started again.

??

5

Precisely. Observations are fine, but when the thread begins to meander too far afield, such as adopting a mean-spirited tone, as was evinced in at least one response, it is an indication that it is a train wreck waiting to happen. It seemed very sarcastic, to say the least, and seemed to be inviting inordinate polarity.

FWIW, I shared my observation with the other mods in case I was being unreasonable. Not one of them expressed any reservations about my…um…reservations, so I felt safe to act as I did once I felt the need to.

It’s over now. Maybe a new thread with more direction and more to the point might not be so bad?

6

I see nothing in the rules that prohibits criticizing an individual. Here is the rule that comes closest:

  • No personal attacks or name-calling. Please keep conversations cordial. We understand that there will be differences of opinion. Please don’t let those differences turn ugly. Accept that others might not have your same point of view, don’t sink to personal attacks. Nothing is gained by doing so.

Criticism can occur without being a personal attack. And even personal attack in its most vicious form has been allowed to pile up page after page on this forum. Maybe the problem was criticizing Europe.

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The thread in question was not about trains. As I read it, it was a couple of conservative posters that apparently felt a need to air their general distrust of “liberals” and “europhiles”, people who in the mind of some arch-conservative Americans is just one step removed from communists and similar Evil Bogeymen ™.

There doesn’t seem to be any imminent shortage of other forums other places where people can express political partisanship by claiming that people whose politics you disagree with are biased liars, or whatever was the intended implication of the comments about Don Philips was.

So, I’d say that Selector made a good call in locking that other thread. And he probably will have to lock (or delete) this thread soon too, the way this thread is headed.

8

Good Lord,

The most name calling I have recently seen was expressed in your above-copied post.

I am certainly not attempting to champion a conservative cause in saying this, but like it or not, Don Phillips–at the very least–is widely preceived to favor certain political views and champion them in his collumns. The whole point of his threads is

9

I must have missed all that. The reason Selector gave for locking the thread was:

“This topic is not within the rules in that it appears to single out an invidivual for criticism.”

There was no mention of it being off-topic or political.

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In reading the original threads beginning post, and not being able to see the deleted replies…I can only address the original post, which seems to indicate the poster is of the opinion that Mr. Phillips affection for European passenger trains is far above his like or dislike of American passenger service.

Now, from my point of view, and in agreement with BaltADC,

Mr. Phillips writes an editorial column, expressing his personal opinions and points of view, which Kalmbach sees fits to pay him for and publish.

Mr. Phillips chooses subjects and material which is often controversial, thought provoking, and political in nature.

By publishing Mr. Phillips work, Kalmbach is in a manner inviting discussion of said work.

Whether you agree with Mr. Phillips or not, it is his work and words we should argue, instead of offering personal positions on our like or dislike of Mr. Phillips himself.

In that vein, I would like to point out he has indeed written several columns full of his remembrances of American passenger train rides…his offers anecdotal humor, often at his own expense.

I have found that in almost ever column he writes about European passenger service, he also points out the political nature of that particular service, correctly showing that European citizens and their governments are willing to fund their trains at a rate Americans refuse to.

He explained in one piece that passenger and freight trains often have separate ROWs in Europe, while American railroads insisted for the most part in mixing both on the same track.

He makes it quite clear that he is discussing two radically different systems, offering obviously different levels of passenger service, because they operate in completely different political systems, serving populations with different wants and needs.

I have noticed he frequently points out the major disparity between American passenger service and European passenge

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Excellent point.

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This would be the best thing to happen to Trains since its inception…

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Why?

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His editorials are too negative. They usually come across as whining, IMO. For instance, if he’s not talking about how great European passenger service is, he’s talking about the “good ole days” and how railfanning/railroading isn’t what it used to be. While that may or may not be true, what good is it to live in the past? In my experience, things from the past tend to look better when viewed from the present, even if they were perceived as terrible when you were going through them back then. Time tends to mask the negative. Hindsight’s 20/20, as they say.

I just don’t enjoy his columns and think Trains would be better served by someone who doesn’t have such a negative outlook on so many things…

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I respectfully, but strongly, disagree.

I often disagree with the position taken by Mr. Phillips, but he writes articles that make you take a position.

Booting Mr. Phillips from Trains because he is controversial and you disagree with him makes about as much sense as locking forums discussing and disagreeing with Mr. Phillips’ articles . . .

Gabe

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Nooooooooooooooooooo!!! I don’t always enjoy the columns, but I think that it is a classic part of TRAINS, and should be kept. I have noticed that most of them are “complaining” about Amtrak and such, but maybe some governmant person will read it and realize he’s right![2c]

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Don’t make rash assumptions, you know what they say about people assuming things without exploring the facts.[:D]

I could care less about endearing myself to anyone here, let alone those who wrote in that thread.

My intent was just as I wrote, no more no less. You give some guys some power, the first thing you know they gotta flex their muscles, and I feel it is EXACTLY THAT which has come into play here.

Please don’t try to play “connect the dots” so much that you misconstrue original intent, and embark on pure fiction (as you have in this case)

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You are EXACTLY correct. Yet I suspect that the mods are going to cover each other’s backs, and stand behind the initial ruling…what else can we expect?

If I were in Don Phillip’s shoes and my columns appeared to be overly “euro-favorite”, I’d want to know that so I could address it in one of my future columns

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Years ago, TRAINS had a columnist that could get me tuned up on a regular basis, how many of you have been around long enough to have read John Kneiling, “The Professional Iconoclast”? Today, when I go back and re-read what few columns I have access to, I understand exactly what he was trying to say.

I can only imagine the debates, outrage, and yes, topic lock-ups that his column would have produced, were it today.

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Then the Mods have the option of deleting the offending material, reprimanding the offending party, and NOT punishing the forum as a whole (locking the entire thread) for the actions of the few.

I fully realize that there are some members here who cannot co-exist with anything other than “rah-rah-rah uncle sam” over the top patriotism. SO perhaps someone writing about how other nations are truthfully exceeding our levels of accomplishment MIGHT rub them the wrong way…and obviously it has done exactly that here, tough toe nails.

Recognizing that some other countries might have a better plan IS NOT anti-patriotism in my book, it’s just objectivity…which is (imo) refreshing