Well it’s finally happened. I’ve been into this whole model train thing more and more seriously, asking more and more questions, getting more and more advice, and listening to more and more suggestions. And now I’ve lost it. I longer know what I’m doing, where I’m doing it, even how I’m doing it.
I’ve recieved the ok from the significant other to have a spare room as my train room, under one condition. I get to turn it into my room. What I mean is all the junk I have in the living room like my computer, magazines, storage bins, all has to go into the room along with my trains. I’m no longer limited to a small scale (N or Z), small sized layout. So now I’m back to confuzzling square one.
4x8? Around the walls? an Island? What about multi-decks? Switching? Long runs? Continous loo…ok that one I don’t care about. HO scale or N? Freelance or prototype? Which lokes? Diesel or steam? I’m back to being completely…overwhelmed. I think my brains turning to mush.
Learn to make decisions and to compromise with yourself.
Visiting, and better yet, operating on other model railroads to get a better feel on what you like most/least. This can make decisions more informed. And don’t worry too much. If you are in the hobby for the long-term, you’ll find yourself redoing/destroying/rebuilding your layouts as you “mature.” That’s all part of the hobby if you are anything like I.
First, how big is the room, and are there any obstructions you need to work around??? Like the door to the rest of the house, closet door, windows (remember a second exit in case you have to get away quickly), the place(s) to store your junk, computer desk, etc.
Start with a list of what you REALLY NEED in the layout, what would be nice if you can fit it in, and what you already know you do not want. Include your road name and area, if you are intererested in prototype, or what you would like to base the layout on if freelance. Then think of the era you would like to model - select a couple and make a list of the pros and cons of each era including availability of equipment and what is within your budget. Same with modeling scale.
The object here is to get some focus on all that mush - been there, done that, got by it.
All the time, remember that this is supposed to be fun! [:D][:D][:D][:D][8D]
The hobby is a very quiet one in the area, and the local club’s due’s are way too much. From the impressions I’ve gotten they don’t just let someone interested in model trains come and run a train around their layout. It stinks, but there is also a lot of time and effort put into their club layout, which also travels to shows. I don’t even think they layout they have now is the same one they had in their old club house at the museum.
If anyone in WI wants to chime in about Marks advice, please do. I would gladly work out some kind of visit and/or inpromptu run on a layout. I live in G.B.
I’ve been at this hobby for 30+ years, and have been experiencing similar thoughts lately, so you’re not alone. I think every modeler gets overwhelmed at times. If you need to take a break, then go do something else for a while (read a book, go fishing, whatever . . .), and you will probably come back to trains with a little more clarity of mind.
I was just complaining to my wife last night (not sure how closely she was listening, but it was therapeutic for me just to talk) about how limiting the hobby can be at times. What I mean by “limiting” is that once I have settled on a particular place/time/railroad for my layout, and have begun making progress toward creating an operable layout based on that theme, to some extent I am “locked in” to that theme for an extended period of time. I just don’t have the money or time to quit and start over every time some new inspiration hits me.
In my case, my chosen layout theme is a backwoods shortline set in the 1950s or 1960s, where usually only one train operates at a time, and I am making fair progress toward creating that theme. Then last weekend, I spent a day chasing trains on a busy transcon mainline in a fairly remote setting with lots of late-model, high-horsepower locomotives and some interesting scenery. Would I like to model what I saw? Sure. Am I willing to tear down my existing, in-progress layout right now in order to model what I witnessed on my trip? No. Do I still think about doing it anyway? Yes. Do these thought distract me from my current plans? Yes.
To make matters worse, next week I will see a photo in a magazine of a steam-powered branchline train somewhere in Appalachia, or a grungy inner city switch engine, that will get me thinking in other directions. So, somewhere I need to summon the mental stamina to put these thoughts on the back burner and let them s
I’ve got about 70 pages of notes. Front and back. Plus numerous pages I don’t have in my current note book. One day after realizing I had about 20 pages of notes spread between 3 notebooks I decided to corrulate them into a single notebook. I’m sure I’m missing some notes, I know I’m missing a few drawings. I just wish I would have chosen something bigger than a single-subject 100 page note book [:-^]. I also have had a hand ful of drawings, sketches, and plans made on graphed paper, although most were of scratch building ideas and have been tossed out. And then of course are the few mega-bytes of info that I have, and have had, on my computer and two different memory flash drives. Although most of them were pictures I saved of the different structures I was thinking of using. Alot of them have been deleted. You’d think between one computer with 512MB memory, another with 383MB memory (a little fixing and it could be working), one flash drive with 2MB and another with 512MB, and about 25 3.5" floppy discs I would have had the idea of keeping every bit of digital information I’ve came upon in researching and junk.
On a side note, in a sepperate but similar post, it was suggested to look at the Green Bay & Western since it’s close to home, in the region I planned to model, and has boat loads of info. Well I did look at all the industries and such, and now my butt hurts. Not from thinking too hard, from sitting too long. The site is more or less about the GB&W with a few web pages set up for the creater, who is also making a GB&W layout. So my main list of industries is made up of the different ones the guy is using on his layout. I’ve got some great ways to go now and some pretty good ideas. So far of particular interest is a brewery, a cannery of all things, a few steel fabrication companies, quite a few food related warehouses, a
If you don’t care much about continuous running, have a spare room and have been given instructions to use the room to store all your other space-eating hobby stuff, I highly recommend that you build a small shelf layout.
Start very small. Get a couple of bookshelves or storage shelves, about 48" high. Put them up against one wall. Get a pre-made MDF shelf that will fit on that board and some snap-track and a few switches, and just start playing around with track pieces. It’s just experimentation, but it’s one step beyond drawing track plans in a notebook. Look at http://www.carendt.us for some super easy super small track plans.
Once you have a board and track, get a power pack and a loco and some cars, if you don’t already, and just start scooting things around. Your investment is minimal at this point, you can change things around as you learn.
Once you get a clearer idea of what you want to do, start putting in some shelf supports around the perimeter of the room, put your shelf layout on it, and start building more sections. A big plus of an around-the-room shelf layout is that you can fit storage shelves under the layout (and maybe above the layout too!) so you can use the layout room as a storage room.
I am in a similar situation, albeit with maybe a bigger room: my layout is in an 11x24 foot basement room. I started out with a 3x6 foot L-shaped shelf layout, in a room in a previous house, and built a 1x6 foot yard extension onto one end later. As time has gone on I am adding more layout sections: right now I am starting benchwork on the third wall of the room and preparing for scenery and structures on the second wall. Eventually I hope to build all the way around the room, with a bridge across the door and window!
I’m assuming you’re talking about the one located next to Engine House Services… I haven’t been able to stop in there myself, but from what I’ve heard from EHS is they are usually there on Thursdays, and they welcome all visitors. Since they moved there I guess they gained quite a few new members. You may or may not want to join, but I’m sure you could stop in there and take a look around and I’m sure they might let you run a train or to two to see if you like the system they use.
I know of a club in Seymour. I plan on stopping in there again during Hamburger Days. They are located in an old depot building. They seem pretty nice there. I believe they run a DC block system.
Realize that you will never accomplish the impossible, which is to design and build the perfect model railroad.
Prioritize. I’m assuming your layout room is a bedroom of roughly 12x12. I would build a shelf type around the walls layout with an industrial/urban theme, since that theme is the easiest to accurately represent a railroad using a smaller layout, IMHO. Or, perhaps an out and back, with operations centering around trains going from an interchange to a town with a major industry at the other end. Older logging railroads fit that same schematic.
Don’t know if GB&W had any real urban locations. Milwaukee or the Twin Cities perhaps. I’m sure you could find a suitable area of the GB&W to model an out and back. Probably even a logging branch up north, back in the day. Sounds like the GBW might represent a great prototype for whatever theme you wanted, provided you like one of these three at all.
In model railroading we all have this overwhelmng addiction to space. You can never have enough or should I say never stop wanting more. Tell me honestly there isn’t one of us here myself included who wouldn’t love to have the entire basement or a really big free standing building or even a wharehouse to house our ultimate layout. Well thats pipe dreams 101 but no harm in dreaming. We all have to learn to live with in our space contraints. Buy yourself a few good track planning books or take advantage of the interactive portion of this website and viw some track plans. Get an idea as to what you would like to model. Do you want to have a switching layout, a logging operation, a rural or intercity line etc. One mistake a lot of us make is that we can’t have it all. Not every model railroqad can have mountins, bridges, industries, a round house and turntable, big freight yards etc. Sometime we try to cram as much of the above into a relatively small space and we wind up with a hodge podge bowl of spagetti that is nothing short of a disaster. We can’t tell you what you like you have to decide that for yourself and have confidence in your plan and the most important thing is be paitent with yourself when building your railroad. It can get frustrating at times trust me I know. The most important thing is to have fun.
One important thing I forgot to mention that was brought up in a post I read the other day about whats under your layout. Seems like you are going to have to put 100lbs of “stuff” in a 20lb bag so to speak so you may want to consider making the height of your bench work high enough to accomadate shelving and or storage containers etc.Some guys have gotten pretty inventive when it comes tofinding new ways for practical use of space.
Look at the desk setups used by the pros for operations desks. Works just as well for work space and computer desks
I’d start setting up your room with the other stuff, to plan the layout around. Once you know how high you need the computer/etc, you figure out if you have room for a dual level, an around the room, etc.
Invest in some art drawers. they fit in any spaces, and can hold lots of trains off layout, should you have an itch to do lots of things
Don’t worry so much. I get the impression that you are trying way-to-hard to “do it right the first time”. Phooey, do something small and learn from it. Tear it up and do something else. After more than 40 years in the hobby I still keep a raw 4x8 sheet of plywood and a huge box of sectional track sitting around just to “try things out” with.
If I would have done it “right” the first time and made my final layout, I soon would have discovered that “right” for then was not “right” for the long run. Had I done what I wanted when I was in junior high school, I would be bored to death today. I continually learn and continually modify what I want in a model railroad.
Very few people have enough experience to build a first layout that is what they really want.
I do understand how you feel, MILW-RODR. Making up one´s mind, what to model, is a difficult task with all the possibilties we have nowadays and the excellent supply of material. Used to be a lot easier some 40 - 50 yeras ago …
The best advice has been given to you - start small, and that does not necessarily mean the scale! You do not need a room filling layout or a roster of umpteen locos, something “manageable” in terms of size, cost and time to start with is the best you can do. It´ll also help to develop your skills and likings.
Just get some track, some rolling stock and a loco etc. and start laying track, put ballast on - get started!
One thing is working out what you want to do, versus what you think you’re supposed to do. If for example you want a point-to-point or switching type layout because you believe that is more realistic, or will more readily fulfill the dreams you have for your model railroad, that’s great. If you’re doing it because some folks at the LHS or this forum have told you that the only way to build a layout is point to point, and continous run loops are only for toy trains, then it’s not great.
In my case, faced with a new fairly large basement after a move in 2006, I tried to work out a layout plan that would allow me to do all the things I wanted to do. When I worked on it over time, drawing many sketches and such, I found that the two things that really mattered most to me - first, iron ore operations centering around an ore yard and ore dock, and second, operation of fairly long “Classic Era” prototype based passenger trains, with a decent sized station and a long continous run for two trains at the same time - were really incompatible. Iron ore areas in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan didn’t feature the right passenger train traffic, and metropolitan areas like the Twin Cities or Chicago were too far from the iron ore mines and docks to warrant enough ore traffic.
So now I’m building a two-deck layout that is basically two disconnected layouts, and upper level that runs point to point from staging to an ore yard with a reasonably large ore dock on the upper level, and a dogbone lower level that allows for about a six-scale mile point-to-loop run for one train, or allows two trains to run each about a 2 scale mile circuit.
I would suggest you take your time and just think about what you like…what would you do if you had no space or money constrictions…and then see if there’s a way you could model at least a part of that.
BTW one thing I found handy was I discovered that a floorplan of my
You are suffering from “analysis paralysis.” You need to make a plan and get out to Home Depot and buy some materials. Once you start taking saw to wood, the logjam will break and you will be on your way.
I’m assuming a typical small room, 10x12 or so. Start with an around-the-walls plan. Put a removeable lift-bridge where the door is, so you can get continous running without a duckunder. Think about a peninsula, which can be a wye or maybe an engine facility with a turntable. Download RTS or XtrakCad (free) and come up with a plan. Buy some track and get started.
You’re right on for the room. Well, mostly. It is rectangular shaped, and a few inches off the easy dimensions of 10’ x 12’ but I always use that. What would be the bottom right corner is where the door would be, which stinks. I will get pics tomorrow, but basically where the door is a roughly 2’ x 3 1/2’ area juts out into the room. It acts like a 10 x 8 1/2 room with an 8 x 3 1/2 adition. Then there is 6 foot wide or so double window that I’m trying to barry. When I start building I will have to take the 1/2" thick trim into account there, and then there’s the closet. For some reason the deal was I get the room but the woman gets the closet. Well I’m going to fit for that closet. For one, it’s in the room I get, for 2 part of the deal was all my other stuff gets in the room, and 3 if I get the closet I can build my layout right by it. I won’t need to get to it so it can ge made in accessible, or as another idea use it for hidden staging.
I’m getting some pretty good ideas looking at the GBW web site. I’ve made a list of the towns and industries that particular modeler has so I have a basis to start on. I know I will still need helping figuring out how should build the industries, where I should put them, and how to connect it all with track. It’s almost getting to the point where I feel I should just build bench work and start laying down track, but I wanted some knowledge and planning going into it. I don’t need the perfectly prototypically operating layout, although listening to some of the advice and suggestions I think I may have subconsciously have been trying to make it perfect for the first time around, instead of just getting something going that works. I’m working on refocusing my thoughts and attention.
I think I might try to work with an around-the-walls approch to bench work. With the top set
You are in about the same situation as I. My available space is a 10 by12 bedroom, but removing the sliding doors to the closet provides another 3 feet of length but only 7 feet wide (creating a 3 by 3 notch out of the corner of a 10 by15 space.)
An around the walls, donut-shaped configuration is best for me. It allows for decent-sized, 30-inch-and-more-radius curves which would not be possible with any peninsula and avoids any 5+ by 5+ blob. required by a180-degree turnback. All views will be from inside the curves too, for better looking trains.
The GBW is on my short list of railroads to model if I ever move onto a new layout concept. Now would be a great time for you to do it with readily available C-424s, C-420s, RS-27s, RS-11s, etc . . . some with factory-installed sound and some factory painted for the GBW!
In addition to the website, I would recommend buying the Pentrex Green Bay Route DVD. It was filmed circa 1992, not long before the GBW finally got gobbled up by the WC. It offers some great acton, and clues to where the most traffic was. Looks like Wisconsin Rapids or the Stevens Point branch might be good locations for you to focus on.
It will be very limited now. Work isn’t being very helpful, 14 hours last week, 8 hours this week, and so far 24 hours next week, so once again residency is up in the air. Which means so is the train room. I will still be planning a layout, but it will be planned to fit an average sized room and be made modular. I figure doing that I can have the plan finished and ready to to look at for construction reference, and also build it as I go, chunk by chunk.
Whether I go with GB&W as my RR I don’t know, but it will definetly be modeled after it. My list of wants is a cement company (no name), a steel fabricator (most likely G.F. Rusch) and building supply store (Miller Piehl Luumber Co.) from Black Creek. A canning type factory in Amherst Junction which the original modeler named G.B. Foods but from his lists I can’t even see a place like that there, the Waupaca foundry, and Steven’s Point Beverage Co. I already have a list of what these companies made, what kind of materials they hade coming in, materials out, and the types of cars used at each company. Now only if a switch list for these places was on the site I would know how frequently to operate them.
The focal point I believe would be the foundry. From what I can tell Waupaca Foundry more or less took scrap metal in and turned it into castings to be shipped out to various places. The foundry I can follow Freytags pretty closely, but he didn’t have a shipping area modeled were castings would be loaded onto out bound cars. His foot print was around 17 x 24 inches, so with the added shipping area and sand recieving (All MR showed modeled was a very tall building labeled as “sand preporation”) I figure it would probalby dominate an entire 2 x 4 foot module. The next biggest would be the brewery which could take up another module in itself.
I would like to run it as GB&W, but the LTS has so many other lokes available. MILW and WC GP30’s, a WC GP35 or 40 not sure which,
Unless you have a track plan that you absolutely positively are going to build, I’d go modular.
But design your modules with some kind of standard interface between modules so you can mix and match and replace / rebuild modules as you decide to try other things and your skills become better.
It can be something as simple as every main is perpendicular to the end of the module and set in 3 inches on center line. No need to go anything more complex.
And make the modules as light weight as possible for ease of moving and storage.