The whole incident is interesting because the camera tells us a lot – but it never tells us everything. (Think Rodney King.) What was going on a few seconds before what we see in this clip? What might have been going on to the left of the picture, or in front of the truck where we can’t see? Does the truck driver have a clear view in the direction the train comes from, or is there a sharp curve or something that would hide the train?
(Don’t get me wrong – I’m very much in the camp of “don’t never stop on tracks no how, no matter what.”)
I’d really love to see this incident taken apart the same way an airliner accident is. And I would really like to know how the driver, and his company if he works for one, winds up.
Is it human instinct to park a car on the tracks? Im only 15 & I’ve already heard of
6 different “car on tracks” incidents in southern California, all of the accidents were by
passenger trains. Scary huh ! When will people learn !
You can bet it is being taken apart. If I understand my training everything within the last 72 hours of the accident time and date is fair game for investigation. That driver probably feels very very uncomfortable under the glare of the lights and penetrating questions that you or I wont even confess to our mothers.
Answers will probably wind up on the NTSB and published a year or so from now after they have arrived at thier findings. The civil problems of collecting the money to pay for the damage and injuries will go on for some time.
But right now there is probably alot going on.
Regarding the media and the need to understand the first few seconds before and after the shot, News media hardly ever gives out the full story. That will come out in due time.
I recall during the recent hostage executions in Iraq CNN and others only showed short videos featuring a statement of some kind. I have seen videos of the executions in it’s raw form on the internet. and am sure that this video will probably circulate along the internet in it’s entireity. Unedited by any news media. I am already seeking to find it.
We have a similar intersection here and the signals are interlocked. When the crossing signals (with gates) activate the highway intersection signals immediately cycle to give a green indication only to the direction of travel away from the tracks if it did not have a green already, all other directions have a steady red. After about fifteen seconds the green cycles to a steady red then all directions go to flashing red for stop and proceed if safe under three way stop traffic rules.
The green is given so anyone that is in the position of being stuck on the tracks (however stupid and illegal it is) can safely clear through the traffic intersection. The parallel street is one way leading to a freeway on ramp so the traffic keeps moving even with the stop and proceed operation. The intersection has operated this way for at least thirty years without an accident.
As others earlier in the thread have said I would like to see more of the earlier video. I timed that the light was green for about 10 or 11 seconds from when the video started until the light turned yellow. I watched the video several times and it appears to me his tractor was sitting on the tracks when the grade crossing signal started, again it would help to see more of the earlier video. Of course there is a sign on grade crossing signal pole “do not stop on tracks”. I wonder if he was stopped on the tracks, saw the train and tried to clear, maybe thought he was clear when he stopped again? It would be interesting to know what the truck driver said to the police. His statement should be on the police report.
It is a good thing the trailer was mostly empty.I was on the City of New Orleans in 1989,when we hit a semi loaded with cardboard.The truck stalled with the trailer on the tracks. The driver got out in time,but we were doing 75MPH at time of impact.I found out from talking to other passengers that when the train hit,the engines and the first few cars lifted off the rails by about a foot, and sailed about 100 feet or so before coming down and landing on the rails! I was in the first coach, and we definately hit hard.I was streched out across two seats,asleep, and this really woke me up quick!
My first thought is how the whole thing could have been prevented by video camera monitoring of grade crossings and alerts given to trains, as recommended by a certain professor in Southern California.
OK, I’m being facetious.
OS
Sure looks like the trucker was a dumbs**t, but I can think of one possible scenario, based on what we can see on the video, where someone else may have been the culprit.
Suppose the trucker started across the tracks on a green light in moving traffic, and then got trapped by someone who either stopped for no reason, or stopped on the yellow instead of going on through? I admit it’s far-fetched, but such things do happen. I’m not trying to defend the trucker here, just suggesting that there may have been other factors here that we can’t see.
Now as for the trailer, well, if I was sitting in the cab of that truck, knowing that it was either me or the trailer, guess what? Bye-bye trailer! In fact, there’s a much better chance that the truck tractor would have caused a derailment, so it’s probably a good thing it worked out the way it did. I wonder if there’s more tape of this than what they’re showing us.
–JD
Then my friend simple arithmatic takes over…4000lbs car -vs- 40,000 lb semi.-vs- 4,000,000 lbs train. Not much of a contest. If I was the truck driver and found myself in the conditions you describe, a driver stopping in front and blocking me on the tracks with a 4,000,000 lb train bearing down on me, well son, I aint gonna take a rocket scientist to figure that one out…Low gear gas/throttle and Mister Stoppedcar is gonna get pushed clean out of my way! I would’t hesitate for a moment! The idiot in front is only one person, how many are on the train and what are the chances that a collision would derail the train and kill a bunch of passengers? I’ll let the insurance companies figure it out from there…
BTW the driver in the video pulls up when the gates start coming down but then the light turns yellow, does he go thru? Nope, HE STOPS! and what do we get? KABLUEEY!!! bit-o-trailer everywhere…dumb!
vsmith–
I don’t disagree in the slightest about pushing a stopped car out of the way. That’s exactly what I would do. As I said, it certainly looks like the trucker was the dumbguy. To take it a step further, as you point out, he stops at the red light. From the camera across the street, it appears that he could have kept going without endangering anybody, or at least made a right turn. My question goes only to what happened just prior to his starting across the tracks. Now I’m going to go back and watch the video a couple more times…
–JD
OS: Smile [:D]
The video clips that I’ve seen start with the light green and the flashers and gate starting. It would be nice to see it a few seconds earlier to ascertain when the light turned and the flashers started. If the traffic lights and gates were tied, it seems that the green would stay a few seconds to protect the cars already in motion going through the crossing as they passed through the intersection to clear. But that wouldn’t provide enough time for some idiot (hmmm) to go from a dead stop and try to beat the gates and apparently this driver was the only one to try to do so. Unfortunately from the looks of it, the truck driver had already pulled up too far to see the flashers too his right. The view from the other side of the intersection shows that the road had a divider and the gate on the other side might not be readily apparent since it didn’t come in front of the lane the the truck was in. I still find it hard to believe that he/she was the only one there that didn’t notice that one of the things…umm me …is not like the others…In my opinion it was target fixation. So fixated on the light that the driver disregarded all other indications…the same thing that makes perfectly good airplanes drive into the ground during combat training. On another clip I saw the news crew panned up and down the road that paralleled the tracks. It did not appear that there were any obstructions. And the pickup trcuk to the right of the rig, who would have had the view of the train obstrcucted by the truck, elected not to go. hmmm.
Dan is dead on (pun not intended). His analysis strikes me as incisive. The previous 30 seconds of video would prove what seem to me to be excellent deductive reasoning.
Served on a few boards, have you, Mr. Harmon?
OS
With a name like SMUCKERS it HAS to be GOOD!!
LC
Target fixation is my guess to. Focusing on the light and not everything going on around you. I done before. Looking at a pedestrian blocking where i wanted to go, and not looking at a car coming towards me. But i got lucky looking at the last second before moving.
Just let it all shake out and we will then know what happened.
Adrianspeeder
Actually you need to be more stridently against the trucker!
Any trucker, that operates his truck and 53 foot trailer onto a railroad crossing, without knowing he will clear the crossing in a single continuous movement is a blathering idiot and is not deserving of holding a CDL… If you don’t know you can clear the crossing, you don’t get on the crossing until you know you can clear it.
BRAIN DEAD!
Are you saying the incident created a traffic jam?
Say Cheese, OS.
Just for the info of it – The gates are supposed to be down for no less than 20 seconds prior to the train occuping the crossing. Add the cycle time (5 seconds?). Either the tape was editted after the light started, or that crossing protection is not timed properly. Add into the above times the interlock with the traffic signals so that the crossing can be cleared, and you are pushing one minute from the time the light started to cycle and the collision.
Several things went wrong here, and probably all of them have been mentioned. But the one thing that any driver should do when caught in such a situation is to drive on through if you are afoul the track. If not, don’t move forward. I can think of ways that the truck could have gotten stranded without the driver having disobeyed any traffic rule, but not going forward through the red and clearing the crossing was definately not smart.
Dan and OS and Mudchicken and Ed, among others will testify to the following == “It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to seek permission”. Run the damn red!
I am well aware of that. I had to think about how the video, accident and ideas were going around. If I was there in person I would have yanked him out of th cab yelling [censored]
Believe me, I have witnessed some DUMB things and had gotten into it a few times myself.
One driver in particular in Chester PA sees a gigantic sign on the corner… NO RIGHT Turn Cleareance 12.0 feet… (Amtrack station bridge) what does he do? make a right. THe left turn would have taken him into the container port and he did not do it. Proceeded to rip the roof off the trailer and destroy the cargo in the high part. I recall that day as if it was yesterday. I guess something magnetic attracting dumb drivers on that bridge.
I too have a problem with the lack of video room prior to and after the hit. That was something worth looking into how long the signals and lights were activated.
My final verdict still stands. Bill the ex-driver for all the loss and damage.
Upon closer look from the across the intersection camera, although the gate for the opposing traffic does not come down in front of the truck, there is a crossbuck in the center divide. So even if the driver was pulled up far enough that he couldn’t see the one to the right with the gate, the one on the left should have been blaring in his ear. Other than target fixation, the only thing I can think of, without “the rest of the story” is that he realized that the hood would be hit by the gate, and tried to beat it, not thinking that it would come down so fast, or that like a garage door it would be interupted if something got in its path. …Oh well that’s what they pay investigators for. …dharmon USI (Unneccessary Scene Investigator) signing off…
I am a Tractor Trailer driver and couldn’t agree with your post more!!! The key here is “Crossing The Track, In A Single Continuous Movement”. One of the most important things stressed in any Driving School. At least it was in mine. It might be a poorly designed intersection/R.R. Crossing, bad light timing, poor line of sight, a combination of these things or whatever. Bottom Line is–A driver of a Commericial Vehicle should NEVER stop on an active railroad crossing. NEVER-EVER-Under any circumstances. The driver btw, was a female (not that it matters). Thankfully, NO ONE was killed or seriously hurt. This gal was lucky. Her CDL should be revoked for this incident, and she should NEVER again be behind the wheel of a Commericial vehicle. This type of carelesness in unacceptable!!!