Does any one out there from southren California rember the P.E. PACFIC ELECTRIC trolly cars?(sorry about the spelling)[:D]
OLE’IRISH
YES[:p]!!! I remember seeing the big red cars in Long Beach,since my grandparents lived there.I saw them running on Long Beach Blvd.and once they took my brother and me to LA and back on the PE[:)].
I can only use my imagination. Where I reside the former Dominguez line survives in remarkable condition as a active UP industrial spur, near the Air Force Base UP services Chevron and other customers using the former El Segundo branch twice a week. Though gone 40+ years, portions of the PE continue to carry on the legend and serve as a visible reminder of what once was and will never be again.[:(]
There’s a movie about closing down the PE called Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Unfortunately, the railway car is played by a modified bus.
The Pacific Electric wasn’t just a mere “trolley” system–it was a big interurban network, moving passengers and freight all over the Los Angeles area. I model the Sacramento Northern, another California interurban/freight line, but know a little bit about the PE–I have one PE boxcar on my layout, not really authentic (generally interurbans’ freight service equipment didn’t migrate much) but I like it.
“Who Framed Roger Rabbit?” isn’t really about the PE per se, more of a generalized story of the end of the trolley era–while National City Lines is blamed for the demise of trolleys in America, a lot of trolley and interurban lines were already out of business or heading that way well before NCL came into the picture.
I think that there is still some operating PE equipment at the Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, CA, as well as one of Sacramento Northern’s freight motors.
It has never been confirmed, but the demise of the PE is allegedly linked to a back room deal by LA Tansportation Lines, Standard Oil, General Motors and BF. Goodrich and the State Highway Department to dominate the local transportation market with City Hall and other elected officials receiving a hefty kickback.
Fact or fiction, one does have to wonder why the highway department in, 1951 gave PE 90 days to surrender the Northern District right-of-way, which was among the most profitable PE lines, so it could be used for new highway construction.
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That modified bus is ex PE 1058. It has been rebuilt back into an interurban car and is now running on 1 1/2 miles of track in San Pedro, California[:D].
[^]I was born in north Long Beach,when my dad was away to WWII,I stayed most of the time with my Grandparents,My mom worked all the time.Like I said I liked the old P.E.[:D]
OLE’IRISH(Jim)
Used to ride the Big Red cars from Long Beach to Los Angeles and back until they were replaced by the so called freeway flyer buses. The PE operated LA to LB in one hour the new bused took 1 hour 30 minutes and they called that progress. As a sleeping sailor returning to his ship in LB late at night on the PE they were comfortable to sleep on and the conductors always woke us just before our stop so we never overslept. The buses were to uncomfortable to sleep on.
I checked From Railway to Freeway, by Eli Bail, Interurbans Special 90
My impression is that the replacement of the Northern District Rail Lines with buses was proposed in the PE’s 1949 “modernization” plan (Jenkin’s Plan[:(]) implemented in 1950. (There are no details of the plan given). It is implied that the closure of the Northern District rail lines was done ahead of the planned schedule due to condemnation of the right of way by the State for freeways.
In the 1950’s most of PE’s rail cars were at least 20 years old. Replacement or rehabilitation expensive. Ridership on was flat or droping, costs increasing. A lot of the public and people in the industry considerered buses modern, streetcars and interurbans old fashioned. They were less expensive to buy, allowed flexibility of routing, and didn’t require the expensive rail infranstructure and private right of way.
Many of the freeway projects originally proposed incorporating rail, but the PE was expected to pay the costs to relocate and and rebuild their facilities (today taxpayer money would be used). They weren’t willing and probably not capable of paying the costs.