I seem to remember reading somewhere that some Alco PA’s were reengined with EMD 567’s any truth to this??
Are you thinking of FAs? I know of one NYC PB (booster) that was done at Collinwood in the late '50s. ‘Christine’ was the previous generation of Alco passenger power (DL-109, with the ‘streetcar motors’ that so mortified the Santa Fe people)
The AT&SF had their first PA re-engined with a 567, though it took a hit in power.
All three of 'em, wasn’t it? (51A-51B-51L)
1750hp doesn’t look like ‘that’ much derating, but oh, brother, does it hurt at higher speed!
At least it wouldn’t break cranks and all that…
Dug around and was able to find this:
Looks like the old SDG&E plant near the Santa Fe depot.
In the late '50s, GE proposed a PA upgrade program that was adopted by both ATSF and SP. This program centered upon an upgrade/simplification of the controls.
Isn’t this one of the PAs that was sold to D&H?
D&H PA arrived on D&H with 16-244 engines. Re-engined by MK w/ 12-251’s.
MKT, RI & FRISCO FAs were done EMD.
MOPAC RS-11’s were done EMD.
CR(PC) did a whole bunch of RS-3’s with surplus 12-567s. AMTK did a handful.
I believe NYC also had on PB re-engined in their shops. It was not duplicated
For a parallel in the automotive world, this is like taking one of those great-looking old Jaguars, removing the troublesome, expensive-to-maintain, long-stroke engine, and replacing it with a small-block Chevrolet V-8.
To some purists, it’s a crime, but you get a beautiful machine that is now reliable.
Most railroads found the costs to convert early diesels to one manufacturers standards totaly unjustifable economically. Changes and upgrades were happening too quickly.
See: Diesel Locomotives: The First Fifty Years A Guide to diesels built before 1972 by Louis A. Marre
It is Railroac Reference Series No. 10.
Numerous rebuild and repower programs from the 40’s and 50’s are listed at the back of the book. Many were repowering projects that removed the original prime mover and installed a 567 EMD engine. Other common projects removed the turbocharger and used the roots-blown intake. Others de-rate the prime mover to reduce wear and tear on the engine.
Included on this list are a PA-1 and PB-1 converted to 16-567C in 1954 and rated at 1750HP. It appears that they only did this once.
Interestingly enough, 51A-B-L are discussed in Vernon Smith’s One Man’s Locomotives, in some detail. If there is interest, I will paraphrase what he said about them.
ATSF had a 3-unit set (PA1/PB1/PA1) re-powered with 567’s.
MKT and MP RS3’s and RI RS2’s were also re-powered with 567’s.
As an aside, some of the 244 engines from RI’s re-powered FA1’s were recycled into RI’s NW1’s.
Does anybody know what engines were in the 4 PAs that D$H got from AT&SF, or for that matter any use of EMD 567s to re-engine Alco PAs, or any other Alco. I know about the Beep, i’m interested in other examples.
Thanks
Amtrak’s were ex-CR I believe.
ATSF CRSD-20’S (RSD-15m’s), all 3 were hump engines geared to slugs for Barstow, were all re-engined with 16-645’s…circa 1974-76 at SanBdno…an awful lot of SD26’s ((SD24m’s) followed suit San Bernardino with 645 D3’s in 'em. Did well as low speed mountain engines.
There were to be more 1460 Class BEEPs (fodder for 40), but that idea was dropped after the pilot project in 1970 at Cleburne with a 567C engine. (SF30B #7200 was also a similar orphan…it worked, BUT…Hello CF7’s in 1970 at Cleburne starting with the wagontops and 2649) CF7’s did well in most branchline & switching applications where you didn’t need the turbo or d/b’s…
The CF7’s, and this is hopefully verified, had miserable control lever locations as did all E, F, PA, FA…and on and on…for backing which was needed usually for pick-ups and putting a train together.
The 251 and the OP from FM are still out there with basics that haven’t changed much from the '30’s for the OP’s and the '50’s for the 251’s.
!2-cylinder 251’s went into the 4 PA’s, previously 244 16 cyl. locomotives. They’re also in ice-breakers and…tugs, towboats…
About a year or so ago “Classic Trains” published the big ALCO PA issue. Re-engining was addressed and in a nutshell re-engined or not, the poor old PA’s just didn’t age very well, nowhere near as well as EMD’s E and F units, although ALCO’s FA’s were pretty age-resistant.
In the Morning Sun book “Trackside Along the Erie and its Connections” by Jim Kostibos, Mr. Kostibos, a former Erie engineers says he hated the PA’s. Mr. K called them “uncomfortable pieces of junk” and the most important accessory you needed for a PA by the '50s was a fire extinguisher.
Too bad, the PA was one beautiful locomotive otherwise.