I’ve heard in the past that it is a good idea to paint any benchwork prior to using to keep movement of the wood at a minimum. My layout is planned for an upstairs room but you never know when the CEO will send you to another location in the house (unfinished basement). I’ve made the benchwork (table top design 40 in X 90 in) from poplar with 1X4 sides and 1X2 joists, as well as 3/8 in 5 layer plywood for the top, now covered with 1/2 in foam. I’m wondering if it would still be adviseable to paint the sides and bottom or if this is primarily something with pine. I’ll probably end up painting it this afternoon but was wondering about everyone’s experience and if it is a need.
It seems you know the issues. If you do paint, I might thin the first coat to get better penetration.
Actually if you are painting to stabilize the wood, you need to paint all surfaces before assembly. Painting only some surfaces will amke the warpage(if you ever have a problem) worse because of the different expansion of the sealed and raw surfaces.
Well that makes a lot more sence…every time I say “this time I’m going to do it right”, I find out one small detail like painting all the pieces before assembly, I didn’t think about painting it before hand.
Has anyone had a problem with movement of the benchwork? I never have, but my longest lasting layout was this last one (6 years of a 1X12 shelf layout).
If you paint all the surfaces before assembly, will you still get a good bond from glue if you are using glue? Since the glue seeps into the wood and seals it anyway, it seems that painting it after assembly would be OK because the surfaces that are glued together are already sealed by the glue.
If the wood is dry, painting may help a little if you get EVERY inch including ends. If the wood is wet, it will warp, no matter what. Poplar is an unstable wood, so it will still bend a little, even painted. I do not paint mine.
I concur that the glue will generally seal the surface as well as a coat of paint.
A furniture maker friend of mine states that nothing seals wood against moisture movement better than shellac. But I’ve never gotten around to sealing my benchwork either.
From my observations, most of the movement/warping comes in the 1st six months after bringing lumber home. All too often, lumber is not properly dried at the saw mill (they like to store logs wet) and is still fairly wet (high moisture content) when it arrives at the lumber yard. Home Depot and Lowe’s (and the like) do a pretty poor job of storing the lumber when it arrives still heavy and wet, so the uneven drying causes it to warp.
If you take lumber home from the yard before it is acclimated to the moisture content in your area, or your home has a significantly different moisture content than the yard, then movement and warping is likely. However, if the lumber has been in use through a year’s cycle of weather with no issues, you are not likely to have issues for years to come. The exception would be if your basement suddenly flooded, or air conditioning is turned off for a month during the summer in a humid climate.
If you have had “movement” problems, then painting/shellacing can be done after the fact to reduce future problems. However, you don’t want to paint/shellac when the humidity is at it’s peak or nadir. Paint significantly slows the rate of moisture migration in/out of wood, but does not stop it.
just my experiences
Fred W
None of my benchwork is painted. It is is a mix of 1x2, 1x3 and 1x4 lumber, with 3/4 inch plywood subroadbed. The layout is in the basement and it is extensive, with the maximum length about 28 feet, although not a continuous run of wood. I run a dehumidifier, but only sometimes. I’ve had next to no problems with any shift in the benchwork.
Unless the basement gets really damp on a seasonal basis, if you do have to move the layout down there, you’ll find that it probably provides a more stable environment, with less potential for shifting, than a second floor room typically does.
thanks for the reply, I feel a little better about that now. I’ve had my stock of poplar for about 3 years and slowly getting to the end of it. I do cabinet making as a hobby as well and so I buy a bunch of stock and let it sit out in my garage (no door). I’ve never painted the cabinets prior to assembly and so when I read the posts about painting benchwork I thought it might have something to do with long runs of unsupported framing. Cabinets on the other hand don’t seem to move as much as the box/framing/face/etc keep it in square. I guess I’ll leave mine unpainted and see how it works as this is a slightly bigger layout than my last, and then see about future layouts/extensions based on the experience.
From reading other threads on this subject, I’ve thought about painting as you’ve described; an additional reason might just be appearance–as my layout will likely be a multiyear project, seems it would just look better to have the wood in some color (brown is one that’s been suggested) rather than looking at a lot of exposed plywood for months or years on end until the scenery/ground cover is completed.
Jim
Not so - furniture makers DO NOT paint/stain/varnish/etc before assembly. It would not hurt to paint/stain, but would probably not make a great deal of difference.[:)]
My layout is 2’X4’ and 2’X8’ sections on a 1X4 frame with 2X2 legs and a plywood top. Most of it has Styrofoam over the plywood. I painted it all, every surface. I did it partly to seal the wood because the layout’s in the basement but mostly for looks. I painted the underside white to make it easier to see the wiring and to write on it with a felt marker (a hint I got from this forum). The rest of it is brown. I even painted the top surface brown so that if there’s any thin spots in the scenery it will look like dirt. Blue is not a colour one finds beneath one’s feet or on riverbanks! I assembled everything with glue and screws before painting (the glue needs to get into the bare wood).
Bob:
That’s an excellent idea, i.e. painting the underside of the layout white–never thought about that, but makes sense since it would better contrast with wiring, turnout motors, etc. while working underneath.
Jim
Honestly, having worked with wood a lot, unless you have extreme conditions in the basement or have bought unseasoned wood, I don’t think the bang is there for taking yet another step and pre-painting all the wood elements on your benchwork, especially those unseen when the layout is completed. Aren’t there’ enough steps already in getting a layout up and going? The best bet you have is to use good fasteners.
I only paint the top of the sub-roadbed (plywood) with my earth tone interior latex paint so that it creates a quick scenery base. Much better than looking at all that plywood before the real scenery goes in.
In this image you can see the areas where the plywood sub-roaded has been painted and an area that has not yet been painted. The grey areas are the cork roadbed.
I think that the only time painting of benchwork should be considered is if the layout will be in an unstable environment. Areas where large humidity swings, very damp basement etc. As already stated running a dehumidifier during the humid/ rainy periods should solve the problem.
Benchwork will always move, even in arid locations. Foam covered layouts usually pose no trouble for track problems. The best thing to do to ensure trouble free track/ joints or buckling is if you lay the track during the dryest or heat season and know the wood is seasoned your gaps can be tighter. If conditions are humid/ damp or the wood is not fully dried leave proper gaps. Recutting of the gaps may be nec. for extreme conditions. Painting of the benchwork may be in order for those conditions as well. This soldering all the rail joints (excluding turns of coarse) is a recipe for disaster especially if you have some very long sraight runs.
Just my view from many years of working with wood.
Paint alone won’t truly ‘seal’ wood. That said, I DID paint my benchwork, but really only to hide it since I didn’t install any skirting. I had some flat black paint left by the previous owner of the house so I used that up to paint the benchwork after I assembled it. If i had to actually go buy paint, I probably wouldn’t have done it, but since the paitn was free…
–Randy
Painting the benchwork “theater black” keeps the eye on the layout. Paint the fascia black as well and you get what is called “the shadowbox effect”.
After seeing what happened to wood after exposure to the high heat and non-existent humidity in my railroad room (Mojave Desert garage) I turned to steel - specifically, galvanized steel stud material. Fascia, when I install it, will be unpainted untempered masonite - I like the color and it doesn’t show grubby paw-prints like solid black. As for what’s in the netherworld, it’s mostly steel, foam plastic and plywood in its natural state, supporting unpainted, unweathered, unballasted track. Paint isn’t necessary to protect or preserve anything I’m using, so I don’t paint anything.
I admit without argument that my benchwork will never be mistaken for furniture. OTOH, it isn’t supposed to be furniture. One doesn’t go to the theater to admire the curtains or the internal architecture of the auditorium, and I don’t want to distract attention from the trains and the landscape they traverse.
Just my [2c]. Feel free to disagree.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Aside from glueing up the “L” girder and staggered joints, it is not a good idea nor necessary to glue the crossmenbers or risers. Any changes or modifications to the frame, say for relocating a joist for sw. machines will become very difficult. This doesn’t apply to glueing up spline or roadbed.
Wood glue will still give a slight bond on painted surfaces, but that solid penetrating bond will be lost. Same is true for glueing foam to wood/ ply. Liquid nail is better for joints like these.