I don’t know that they can always tell; advance surveys are not always reliable.
In contrast with the successes cited elsewhere in this thread, last year I read somewhere that Nashville’s Music City Star had passenger counts below expectations. One poster noted that its route was not that advantageous to commuters. Maybe with $4 gas that will change…
Boston’s Orange line Wellingon station has the only installation I’ve seen of a people mover from parking garage over yard and shop to station platform
Boston’s Orange line Wellingon station has the only installation I’ve seen of a people mover from parking garage over yard and shop to station platform
Pace in Chicago’s suburbs has a finite budget and communities have finite patience when it comes to feeder services to Metra. Low ridership is politically embarrassing as well as costly.
One problem I see is that the discontinued Pace feeder routes were rush-only.
Parking can be a bane to suburban downtowns. Park Ridge, Des Plaines, Mount Prospect, Arlington Heights and Palatine have adopted the idea promoted by the Center for Neighborhood Technology of high-rise condominium living within walking distance of the Metra station. The improved land utilization and increased real estate tax revenue from new residential and commercial development pays for building parking decks to replace sprawling flat lots. Money trumped community character.
Most of Pace’s services in the northwest suburban area are oriented to the CTA Blue Line and River Road/Rosemont transit center.
I would mention Evanston; but development there is driven more by Northwestern University and a desire to enjoy the related shopping, restaurant, and cultural opportunities within a short walk or transit trip distance as well as access to downtown Chicago.
SoCal Metrolink put in a new station at Buena Park on the Orange County Line. It had 300 parking spaces and a bus stop for 2 bus lines. Within 2 months the lot was packed full by 7:30 AM. I use Metrolink at least once a month and had been using Fullerton. Buena Park is 1/2 the distance to my house so I used it for a while. Now I am back to Fullerton, since finding a parking place in BP is impossible for my 8 AM train. I can always find a spot in Fullerton by using my handicapped placard to park in a time-limited slot.
OCTA’s solution is to start a new free shuttle bus from a Park 'n Ride bus lot 3 miles away. Since I have never seen more than 5 or 6 people get off the existing bus lines for a train, I don’t think the shuttle is going to do much good. People who want to use the train do NOT want to take a bus to get to it.
Jack
Here in Charlotte, our furthest out light rail station has 1120 parking spaces in a park and ride deck. It is full by 7:30 AM, as are the next two stations in.
The planners greatly under estimated how many riders they would be serving.
And it will increase as all the high rise condos along the light rail line are completed.
as HarveyK400 mentioned, if you build the condo within walking distance of the station then increased ridership does not necessarily mean you need increased parking spots.
NIMBY’s can be interesting. A multi story housing development less than 3 blocks from the Ambler PA SEPTA heavy rail station, newspaper mentioned one of the oppositions was fear that x number of units would result in x new cars on Ambler streets at rush hour, presumably to get to the turnpike several miles away. Nothing in the article about how at least some of the potential residents would locate there because of proximity to transit and so x residents would result in less than x additional car trips.
I mentioned before in some forum, newspaper mentioned NIMBY opposing NJT River Line station placement because it would lower property values. Generally doesn’t proximity to public transit figure prominently in items realtors use as selling points?
Of course the new dwellings will not increase the need for park and ride parking spaces.
The statement about increase was related to the second paragraph:
“The planners greatly under estimated how many riders they would be serving.”
The inadequate number of parking spaces is a result of the same under estimate.
They also have discovered that they did not buy enough trainsets. They have ordered more, but it will be almost 2 years before delivery.
Did it ever occur to anyone that the real objective of commuter rail may NOT be to transport people?
no, not really, but if it’s not to transport people then what do you think its real objective is?
Pheobe,
While the ridership has been higher then officially projected (a very conservative estimate to meet the FTA “cost benefit” analysis requirements) many of us who work with CATS on a regular basis always felt that ridership was going to be much higer. (I am one of the two Matthews’ reps on the MTC)
As for parking- most all of the lots were planned to be larger, (several much larger) but got cut in the FTA’s “value engineering” process. Basically they said, “if you are using a consertive ridership estimate to meet our requirements, then why are you asking to fund these big lots”. The FTA required that they be reduced, or they would not pay.
That’s also the reason that the platforms were cut short- 2 car lengths- what we applied to fund was three car length platforms. Again the FTA disapproved, so they were cut. We will be seeking 3 car platforms on the NE line- we will see what they say then.
Remember the FTA’s job is to make the administration look good (no matter who is in office) not necessarly fund transportation improvements. The current FTA is really not supportive of rail investments in sunbelt cities. If we were to accept a BRT proposal for the SE, they have basically said they would fund it at 80% - tomorrow- they are desperate to get a big BRT on the ground.
Public carriage is almost always subsidized by the Federal Government. To have new Federal dollars start floating around in a region or community is economically beneficial, because through banking logistical wizardry, that money can double or even triple with no real effort. So, while public rail and bus systems tout the TRANSPORTATION benefits of their offerings, there are those that relish a FREE FEDERAL HANDOUT THAT MIRACULOUSLY GROWS. Wouldn’t you thrill at a $20 bill on your kitchen table that miraculously became TWO $20 bills, even THREE such bills?
Matthewsaggie:
Kind of makes you wonder which component of BRT systems is the big political donor, doesn’t it?
I’m completely puzzled by your economic theory.
Puzzled?
You just need to listen to Fox and Rush more often.
Under the new Democratically controlled Congress, the government’s goal is to collect all the money and give it to the lazy people. In order to justify taking all of OUR money, they are forced to provide at least a few services, so they come up with cockamamie schemes like mass transit where they just move a few people around at a cost that exceeds what it would cost to just buy each them a car, so that the feds will shower us with our own money.
Did I miss anything?
K. P. Harrier can certainly answer for himself, but what I think he refers to is the phenomenon where one deposits $10 in the bank, the bank then loans it to someone who uses it to pay someone else for goods or services, who in turn deposits the $10 in the bank, and the cycle repeats.
At its worst this is a pyramid fraud scheme, at its best it’s the grease on the gears that make our economy run.
Phoebe Vet, are you offering this as your own opinion, or is it how you feel is Fox’s and Rush’s opinion?
Sarcasm
Fox is to news what WWE is to the sport of wrestling.