Does anyone know where I can find a summary reference of real railroads passenger fleets. I am intersted in Class #1 transcon type railroads in the 1940s (not counting WWII troop related stuff) and early 1950s. I need to know things like the percentage of the fleet that is a given type of car.
baggage 10%
coach 20%
lounge 4%
diner 3%
etc.
Then does anyone know how mixed use cars are classifed? That is an end car (observation) can be a coach, lounge, a sleeper, a diner, etc. Or do they just make up classifications as they need them.
I have no idea of such a book or reference, but you might try giving Wayne or one of the other guys at the Houston Roundhouse in Houston Texas a call. I can’t seem to locate the number but it can be found in the Houston Yellow Pages on-line.
Tracklayer
Well since NH cars stuck to the eastern Seaboard most of the time, I don’t think you’d want my roster.
RE: classificiations, the NHRR had them set - it was written on an aluminum plate on the side of the car put in the window band next to the door.
Some included:
PARLOR
BUFFET
PARLOR
LOUNGE
LOUNGE
DINER
BUFFET
LOUNGE
etc.
Ok, there is a follow up. I’ve always seen the designation of Lounge which is usually a place where one can sit around with some sort of snack or sandwich/drink bar there. But what is the difference in that and a parlor?
Dear Texas,
A lounge was a car with refreshments and open seating. Passengers would visit the lounge, but had a ticket for another seat or sleeping accomodation. The seats in a parlor car were ticketed, so a parlor was basically a first-class coach.
As far as the percentages of different types that a particular line had in service, those varied by road. (Let’s leave aside the fact that railroads changed from leasing sleeping cars to owning them during your era and just consider what they operated.) Basically, the shorter the passenger routes, the higher the percentages of coaches and baggage cars, and the lower the percentages of sleepers, lounges, and diners. The NYC, Pennsy, Santa Fe, or other roads with long runs operated a lot of sleeping cars, mostly on their long-distance trains, and many of their trains had diners and lounges also. A shorter railroad, even one with heavy passenger traffic like the New Haven or Reading, would have a high percentage of coaches and some parlor cars.
The percentage of baggage cars is remarkably high for most railroads, especially the long-distance roads. Remember that while a coach or sleeper could be turned and sent back out relatively quickly (their cargo being self-propelled), cars loaded with express or mail needed to be unloaded and reloaded.
The best source of info is the Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment for the year that interests you.
Thanks for reading MR,
Terry
Wow, I’m thrilled to see so many passenger-related threads lately (and a higher proportion of relevant articles in MR lately, at least to my perception – thanks Terry & MR Crew).
As some regulars may know, I’m a passenger-ops nut myself. I’m in the midst of building a sizeable pike that will be passenger focused (even to the extent of not having a classification yard - the shock, the horror!)…
That’s a long preamble to say I’ve dug and dug and dug and not found a great reference resource either. I’m starting to think it’s not out there. All I’ve been able to do is piece together bit of info, from the Official Register (as mentioned), MRR articles, etc. In some ways, it’s almost a blessing… You can play it a hair faster and looser in the passenger world, simply because there isn’t a “definitive” source and practices were so varied… Look on it as part of the fun.
There is some good info here in regards to Santa Fe equipment.
http://atsfrr.net/resources/hitchcock/index.htm
And yet another follow along question.
In doing this research I regularly run across the terms coach and chair car. I had always used these interchangeably. However, these are listed in railroads rosters as different types of cars. Why? What is the difference?
A coach is a coach is a coach. Most coaches had an aisle running the length of the car with two double rows of bench like seats on either side of the aisle. The seatbacks could be swung over to provide forward facing seating for the return trip. Some roads, the New Haven for instance, had a small smoking section at one end of the car. The coach ticket was the cheapest fare. The chair car, or parlor car, had 1 row of plush swiveling upholstered chairs on either side of the aisle. Most were operated by Pullman, before the break up, and many had a porter, either for one car or for the several parlors in a given train. They had an extra fare for the extra comfort and service. Smoking, and drinking was allowed in parlor cars. On a long trip it was the only way to go, if you could afford it.
I am not an expert on US passenger practice (other than as an occasional passenger) so I will not comment on who owned how many of what.
What I do know is that passenger cars painted for west-of-the-Mississippi roads reached New York City in the early 1950’s, presumably by way of the Pennsy, possibly via NYC as well. When seen among the Pullman green and tuscan red fleet at Sunnyside Yard, those Armour Yellow UP cars stood out like a lighthouse!
A coach is a coach is a coach. Most coaches had an aisle running the length of the car with two double rows of bench like seats on either side of the aisle. The seatbacks could be swung over to provide forward facing seating for the return trip. Some roads, the New Haven for instance, had a small smoking section at one end of the car. The coach ticket was the cheapest fare. The chair car, or parlor car, had 1 row of plush swiveling upholstered chairs on either side of the aisle. Most were operated by Pullman, before the break up, and many had a porter, either for one car or for the several parlors in a given train. They had an extra fare for the extra comfort and service. Smoking, and drinking was allowed in parlor cars. On a long trip it was the only way to go, if you could afford it.
Some railroads had lists of passenger car types in their corporate annual reports. I recall that Santa Fe did in the 1960s. At that time, IIRC, Santa Fe had large numbers of baggage, mail & express cars and coaches.
Thanks for the help everyone. Just in case anyone else is struggling with the same thing here is what I finally came up with. I was amazed at the number of different types of cars and surprised by the number of express freight cars. I was also surprised at how few “combines” there are. They must have been from an earlier era.
This is for a Western Transcon 1949-1960. A zero percent means there are cars in that class just less than 1%.
25% baggage
0% baggage-coach
1% baggage-dorm
0% baggage-dorm-coach
0% baggage-lounge
15% box car
0% buffet-chair
0% café observation
0% café-lounge
0% chair
1% chair observation
0% club baggage
1% club lounge
0% club-chair
28% coach
0% diner-lounge
5% dining
1% dome lounge
0% dormatory
1% horse
1% lounge
1% lounge-dorm
0% lunch counter
0% parlor
0% parlor-lounge
0% parlor-observation
0% parlor-observation
4% reefer
3% RPO
5% RPO-baggage
1% RPO-baggage-coach
7% sleeping
1% steam generator