passenger cars in India are more like 60’ not 85’ ike here so higher number of cars are logical.
Edit;
I just checked the ALP-45s specifications and it is listed as 1000KW and 12 Multilevel cars capacity. Specifications say it exceeds ALP-44s and Equals ALP-46s So t
Yes, for all we know NJT bilevels do need 83 kW per car, while 1980 Superliners only needed 45 kW per car. So why would cars be so much hungrier now?
I recall two stops (coach and sleeper) at several stations with the Empire Builder and the California Zephyr when the platform is not long enough to let passengers from both classes to entrain/detrain at the same time. I do not recall such when we rode the Sunset from Los Angeles to New Orleans this past spring, but siome may be necessary west of San Antonio.
I just happened to pick up a copy (literally) of NYC Timetable 14 from October of 1963. Fortuitously, as I flipped through the pages I found that NYC had a restriction of … 20 cars … for passenger service. Trains made up of strictly mail and express cars could go a bit longer, but now I’d never find that spot in the timetable again.
Absolute maximum in the Netherlands is 16 cars though that is rare. More likely you see 15 car trains (emu’s). There are platforms that can handle longer trains. Amsterdam Central Station for instance has platforms that can handle 2 16 car trains (if I’m correct), one behind the other and has room for crossovers between the trains.
Incidentally, back in the early 80’s I think there was a disruption of service in Australia and several passenger trains were combined in one monster train of 42 cars. Then, on february 19 1989, NS (that is Nederlandse Spoorwegen) ran a test train consisting of 60 passenger cars, total train weight 2600 metric tons and length of 1600 meter, pulled by loc 1607 Vlissingen because that year was 150 years of railroads in the Netherlands. There were some 900-1000 passengers on board but only in the first 14 or so cars because no more electric energy was available (we are using 1500 V DC on the domestic network).
http://www.feijenoordsemeesters.nl/LRtW/index_E.htm
This youtube video, shown during the official 150 year celebrations later that year, shows the train crossing Moerdijk bridge, longest in the Netherlands. Note that the train is longer than the bridge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqNNIJvSQDM
On april 27 1991 Belgian railroad NMBS/SNCB ran a passenger train consisting of 70 cars (length 1733 meters and 2786 metric tons, a goodwill special. Don’t know if that record was ever broken…
[quote user=“blue streak 1”]
timz:
Dakguy201:
I seem to recall an Amtrak employee telling us that 16 Superliners was the maximum number of cars that the HEP in a P42 could handle.I believe that the number 16 would be with 2 diner cars such as has been observed on Auto Trains. It may be the power cables (4) between the cars may be the limiting current capacity. 4-0 cables which appear to be the size of the cables are good for 200Amps. The 4 cable sets would be about 960 KW well within the 800 KW you state.
It always seems to be hard for us fans to get the straight dope on how many cars a given engine can supply HEP to. Seems to me when Amtrak’s second order of F40s came out with 800 kW HEP that was claimed to be enough for 18 Superliners-- but does that assume the cars aren’t all at their maximum demand? In any case, I think 18-car Superliner trains (or maybe Superliner/HiLevel) did run as specials to Seahawks games circa 1980.
The Seahawks specials would probably been all coach so the extra demand of diners would not apply?
However it will be very easy for Auto Train to lenghten over 16 superliners by placing a P-40 or P-42 on the rear of the passenger consist and MU the loco to the front for power and to split the power cable pass thru at about half way in the passenger consist. There may be a problem if the train control 27pt cable (not the MU 27 cable) requires the 3 phase power to be syncronized. I have no idea ??
People have been known to claim ALP44s can only supply HEP to six of NJT’s bilevels. Sounds unlikely, but nobody seems to know what the cars actually do demand, or what the ALP can supply.
Ah, I’m famliar with the shorts on Amtrak, the Cardinal does this as well.
And I wuld not be surprised if two Diner’s tax the train’s electrical demands. Speaking only from an outsdated Genset and late thirties coaches, the limits may well be on the power supply. When we have more cars running air, the train tends to be both warmer, and the lights dim more fvrom the power demands. Kill one car, from anywhere in the train, and the lights will brighten a bit.
The Red Ringling Brothers Circus trains is 55 cars long with a total length of 4877 feet, while the Blue unit has 56 cas and is 4959 feet long… 33 of these cars are passenger cars. Each run as complete trains with the passenger cars up front and the flat cars and bi-level auto rack in the rear.
Yep, they’ve also run it with as many as 65 cars in it’s modern states, there’s a pair of Generators per train, I beleive each passenger car has it’s own mini generator, and it’s all run like freight. Just, highly complaintive freight.
Aside from platform lengths, the limitation is HEP. Not just the head-end generator, but the inter-car cabling.
Keep in mind - different car types have very different HEP loads - diners are by far the worst. Also time of year - will you be running the A/C or the heat, and how hard?
That NCTM excursion was a bit of a “ringer” in regards to HEP. The back half of the train was private excursion coaches, and many of those will be equipped with their own HEP gen-sets, capable of running their own HEP trainline to power themselves and nearby cars. So the Amtrak HEP unit did not nearly need to power the whole train.
I have not gone thru the new Amtrak car specifications but I suspect that to reduce HEP requirements that many items will be listed as very energy efficient. Such as:
1. High effiuciency Air Conditioners.
2. LED lighting where possible
3. High R value insulation
4. High R value windows
5. easily maintained window and door seals
6. Local vents to remove heated air high heat sources
7. Doors that close quickly when clear of passengers
8. ETC
elations
Testing…This thread shows as being locked?
It’s working for me. I just received my e-mail version of your post.
Bruce