I have a 2353 ABA S.F. F3 Postwar Loco’s pulling 5 Postwar aluminum lionel lines passenger cars. When I go around curves the baggage car tips over and derails. I have a baggage, 2 coaches, dome, and observation. How do i keep the passenger cars from tipping over?? Should i oil the wheels to make them roll alot easier?? Shorten the to 4 passenger cars? I am using O gauge track, 031 that is, I have an S in my layout and thats where they tip over. I think its too much stress on the cars. I know my loco can pull them no problem. Let me know what you think. thanks.
lionel2,
IMHO S-curves look great, especially when a long train snakes through it but it does put a lot of stress on the cars’ trucks as they go through the curves, especially the lighter and/or longer ones.
In your case you have the factor of the length of these cars. Sure they were made to negotiate O31 curves and they do, but have you noticed the over-hang? Once you get to just the right spot on the S-curve the loco’s force is in a straight line across the couplers and the trucks pulling it off the track. I’m sure it is related to the laws of physics but I couldn’t tell you which or explain it. There are many on this board who can explain it for you.
Shortening the consist might help. Try it!
Mike
Your cars were made for 031 track so I think you answered your own question.A tiny drop of oil at each wheel. Household oil will work, dip a toothpick in the oil to get it at the wheel. When you are doing that give the truck and wheels a visual inspection to see if something is amiss.
[#ditto] to what Sir J. said and if at all possible, if still a problem after oiling the trucks, try inserting a short straight in between the curve sections.
Lionel2,
In addition to the above, check to make sure that the pivots that the trucks turn upon are operating smoothly and easily, and that the coupler-shaft can turn fully from left to right and back without binding. Lubricate if necessary. If everything is moving freely, the normal 15 inch Lionel passenger cars should get through the S without derailing, although perhaps barely. If a switch is part of the S, it may be more difficult. S-curves composed of switches mounted curve-to-curve are notorious.
If all that fails, consider putting a short section of straight track in the middle of the S. A half section might do it; a full section would be even better. If you don’t have room, or don’t like the appearance of the somewhat straightened S-curve, you might try substituting an S composed of two curves composed of higher-radius track. The closer you get to a straight line the better the train will take the curves.
Yes, it does have something to do with physics; more precisely with geometry. I think the phenomenon, which is occasionally observed with real trains, is sometimes called “stringlining.”
Edit: Sorry Doug, we crossed in the mail.
It’s a coupler problem more than anything. Use dry powdered lubricant such as Lubriplate on the coupler swing mechnanisms. Or light oil but powder lubricant works best in this application. Auto part stores sell dry powder lubricant for locks. That works too.
If you can get a half section of straight between the curves of your S curve, that would be of great help too.
OK…I will try oiling the couplers and wheels and see if that works. I will give you guys an update to see if it works. Thanks.
One word of caution with powdered lubricant. Use it very sparingly (just a smidgeon) as it can get all over everything if you’re not careful (which is true with overdoing it with any oil). Shake off any excess by giving the assemblies a few good taps on your finger.
If all the lubricating doesn’t do the job, try fastening a prototype spike to the middle of the floor of the baggage car.
I have the same consist and once, the same problem. All these suggestions sound great.
(I know that this will not solve your situation but I put the train on the 54" track. Runs & looks great.)
Would putting weights inside the cars help?
Yes, but only in the car(s) that are tipping over, which is why I suggested it for the baggage car in this case. Putting weights in the cars that are not tipping makes things worse, since it increases the drawbar force on the cars that are tipping.
Baggage cars are usually the ones with this problem. They are often lighter than the other cars and always have more cars behind them.
Of course, any weights will do. But spikes are heavy and easy to find; and it somehow appeals to me to use part of a prototype railroad in my trains.
Make sure the wheels are clean and free of any build up of gunk. The gunk can decrease the effectiveness of the oversized flanges.
I would rotate the different cars to the baggage car position to find out whether it’s the baggage car or the position in the train.
Chuck
As it turns out, i was wrong. My F3 cannot pull the ABA+5 cars. Just spins its wheels on the S curve. So i took out the one coach car and now its just great. I oiled the wheels and all that. I think its just too much of a load. My FM cannot pull it either. Oh well. thanks.
I have an 031 layout with an ‘S’ curve, but it has a 10" straight in between. It’s followed by a 90 degree with a half straight in the middle.
I am currently pulling a 21 car postwar mixed freight with a Hudson with no derailments. Couldn’t do this until I cleaned all the wheels and lubed all the axles as outlined earlier in this thread…
I would like to try pulling 6 to 12 passenger cars once I get some. The real RRs typically ran 12 to 20 pass. cars on high speed runs between big cities.
Anyone pulling more postwar freight or long pass. trains on an 031 layout?
Spinning drive wheels?..stay with it, lionel2. You continue to move in the right direction with your F3 2353s. OOOOOPS 2343. Read runtime’s post. You’re having the same problem with different engines.
Try cleaning the track contact portion of the 2343’s powered A unit’s wheels thoroughly with 90% isopropyl alcohol and paper towels or an old cotton tshirt. Clean until the black gunk stops coming off. Do the same with the track. For caked on gunk, scrape off with a small flat head screw driver, then clean with the alcohol. A Scotch Brite pad with the plastic abrasive side will remove caked on track crud easily without creating another problem too.
Bet following your lube and oiling successes (2343 thread)you now have some nice oil deposits and old dirt on the drive wheels and track that are inhibiting traction.
I think the dual motored F3 2343 with magnetraction (sp?) should be able to pull the dummy A, the dummy B, and the 5 cars with clean wheels and track, albeit through an s curve pulling the heavy dummy units and cars…unless…
Are you sure you oiled the passenger cars and there’s no crud binding the axels? A couple of years back I worked on my passenger cars and removed a lot of almost hidden Christmas tree tinsel and dog and cat hair with toothpicks, tweezers, and tiny flat head screwdrivers.
Finally, stopping and starting on the s portion of the track may be too much friction to overcome. Are the engine wheels slipping when you start and stop on straight se
This will not solve your derailment problem but, make sure your powered F3 is in good running order and lubed. PLUS run the powered unit in reverse with the dummy A & B in front, the engine will pull better.
…ask some of the more rotund passengers to sit on the other side of the aisle…[D)]
Good point, Sir James. I had been running my postwar Alcos since 1954 in this arrangement, Dummy A first, and never knew why until I joined this Forum. My father had that concept drilled into him 53 years ago and I just blindly followed. Come to think of it, my powered A unit may have forgotten how to pull a consist facing forward. [:D]
Jack