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Passenger rail commission sets inspection trip for Gulf Coast
After only ten years they act like they’re serious about restoring service, our tax dollars at work! Will they actually do something, or will this just be another dog and pony show with blasts of hot air from politicians and bureaucrats?
I’m glad that they decided to run this inspection train! It seems like real progress is being made toward a revival of regular service. Hopefully it will get plenty of local press.
Another collossal waste of taxpayer money. Why would anyone use this train (other than railfans who “need the mileage”)? If there was a need for it the train would have come back sooner than 10 years. Loadings were low(refer to a forum post in this week’s newswire that came out yesterday PM for the numbers), timekeeping was awful (frequently 6 to 20 hours late) and there is nothing to suggest that there would be any improvement going forward. In the intervening 10 years people have found alternative means of transportation. Alternative means that are preferable to a slow overnight train. Think about it. Why would anyone traveling from Orlando (or Miami) take the train north to Jacksonville and then overnight to New Orleans taking God knows how long when you can board a plane and be there in a couple of hours. And, at several times the cost if you are taking a sleeper. Probably more expensive in coach too. Intermediate stops have either air service or adequate bus service. Makes absolutely no sense. The stupidity in our government astounds.
Robert seems to have not read the article that said the train would be DAILY and run from ORLANDO. DAILY service carries exponentially more passengers than TRIWEEKLY service, which the transcontinental Sunset Limited was (and the current Sunset still is). The train was so late because it was running from LA to Orlando over Union Pacific lines that delayed the train severely even after the section east of New Orleans was suspended. It was a three night run while this will likely be a two-night run that also would bring direct service to Florida back to Chicago passengers.
As much as I want to see this train restored the fact remains that Amtrak does not have the equipment to implement another service. As such it will be close to a decade before anything actually happens.
@ Robert J McGuire, Did you ever ride that train when it was running? South Florida, in fact all of Florida is cut off from the West because Amtrak dropped the train after Katrina. So all of Florida suffers when there is a disruption on the East coast due to weather. Currently there is no Amtrak service if say Virginia or NC/SC are hit. That route would open up a second way out. Don’t think it happens? It does and I have been affected by it in the past. Also try getting to Birmingham, Anniston, Atlanta, or NOLA by rail right now from anywhere in FL. All the way to DC and then return South to any of those places. Or try making the connections by the Silver Star and Crescent. Amtrak had the equipment before, return it to that service. Or from Florida to Chicago for that matter because again, otherwise it is by way of DC only.
PS: I have traveled that route to NOLA, Birmingham, Chicago. Both when it left from Miami and when it left from Orlando. Others in the family have used it to go to San Antonio. We would use it again if available. Some of us cannot fly for medical reasons.
If this was a new airport to serve the area there would be little trouble finding funding. I am all for taxpayer support of Amtrak. Gosh knows we have gleefully funded rail’s competition now for almost 70 years.
Mr. McGuire, I’m sure many of the same things were said about the Downeaster before it started. I believe it is enjoying record ridership.
Mr McGuire: My wife and I had a need to travel from San Antonio to Orlando when the Sunset Ltd was still operating. This train, even running late, was our only option as I do not fly and bus would not be comfortable for this long trip. I am pleased that my tax dollars would support such a service.
While there may be many on this discussion who strongly disagree with Mr. McGuire, you should realize that he presents an opinion held by something close to a majority of US citizens.
I personally would like to see this service restored. It seems to have a natural fit in a national rail passenger system. And if the US can rebuild foreign railroads, we certainly can adjust national priorities to support railroad services (as well as the USPS, veterans’ services, and some other basic activities that make this a nation.)
However, I find compelling Mr. McGuires’ statement that, if there indeed was a strong consumer demand for this service, it would have been restored long ago. The opportunity to spend two or three nights getting across this grand country just is not appealing. Further, the number of governmental organizations and the amount of public sector time and money that is being devoted to getting service restoration this far is large, and amazing.
I would also note that there are over 50 daily MCO-MSY flights offered by three major airlines. Several 14-day advance purchase options on Delta this evening that will get you there in as little as 3 hours and 53 minutes for $281.20 in coach.
Those with medical conditions and won’t or cannot fly, or who don’t like the bus, do indeed have other transportation options. A privately-run convalescent coach from Orlando to New Orleans runs around $800 one way. You might have to make a change in Mobile.
Further to Mr. Norton’s comment about airline subsidies. I would point out that in 2014, Amtrak boardings in Denver were 113,000. Denver’s airport handled 54,400,000 passengers that year. DIA handles roughly 480 times more traffic than Amtrak.
It’s reasonable to postulate that whatever public subsidies are provided to US airlines and airports are roughly in line with air travel’s market share.
I used the train twice between Orlando and NOL, in 1994. Both times it was packed with people.
Would someone please tell me what medical conditions prohibit one from flying? I had a railfan tell me he couldn’t fly because he had heart problems caused by altitude but this didn’t seem to bother him when he rode the cog railway to the top of Pike’s Peak. I think it was just an excuse to get disability money.
@McGuire There is a significant difference between 14 thousand feet and 30 thousand feet. And just because you can’t fly does not mean you can claim disability. You can only claim it if you have worked long enough and you have been out of work or won’t be able to work for 12 months, according to the SSA disability application. Also there are other reasons people don’t fly, like security, turbulence, price, service quality, or even terrorist attacks, although the last one is a very small threat. I don’t fly because I hate turbulence. To get from Denver to Milwaukee takes 2 hours flying, but taking the train takes 22. Although it is much slower, many people prefer it over flying and driving.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself
Lots of things are being said based on assumptions that aren’t necessarily so:
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Just because it’s a long-distance route doesn’t mean it serves only long-distance passengers. I don’t have statistics, but I do know that long-distance trains serve a lot of passengers riding between intermediate points. Whether it’s a two- or three-night trip across the continent doesn’t matter to someone traveling from Bay St. Louis to Pensacola, for example, as long as there’s a train that serves those two points.
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Other legitimate reasons for not flying include dependence on a wheelchair (transfers to & from little aisle chairs to seats can be awkward, painful, time-consuming, and embarrassing; you have ship the motorized chair you had to leave at the gate; and how do you get to the restroom en route?); size (you don’t have to be morbidly obese or very tall to have trouble shoehorning yourself into tiny airline seats, and your potential seat mates would thank you for taking a train instead); dependence on oxygen (a security and space hassle); anxiety about flying (regardless of how you feel about why the person feels anxious, it’s a debilitating condition that crew and fellow passengers should not be asked to deal with); and pressure-sensitive conditions of the ears, eyes, brain, lungs, etc. (may be o.k. as long as cabin pressure is maintained, but painful to potentially fatal if pressure should be lost–no risk of same on a train).
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Consumer demand is only one factor that influences whether a given service is established or allowed to continue. Amtrak’s Chicago-Florida Floridian was a tremendously popular train with travelers, but my understanding is that because it required coordination with, and cooperation of, so many different freight railroads it became too much of an operational headache to remain viable. If operational wrinkles could be worked out, I think existing consumer demand would easily support that service and others, includin
a NOLA-ORL train should be re-established simply because it fills a large gap in the Amtrak network. many of the small-midsize towns along that route do not have air or bus service alternatives. to Mr. Miller: 4 hours MCO-MSY? check again. don’t forget you are changing time zones. and to John Scott: I’m afraid you are right: this is simply a feel good ‘dog & pony show’. CSX is sitting back for now, but when it’s time to actually arrange for track time, they are going to simply say “NO”. to Mr. McGuire: many of your points pertain to the old Sunset Ltd. extension and do not reflect the facts of today if a stand alone NOLA-ORL train is run. there are more people that live along that route and bus or air alternatives are few if not there at all for many of the small-midsize towns along the route. I rode the Sunset MIA-LAX in the early '90s. it was an enjoyable trip. train was mostly full from Orlando to NOLA. (30 minutes late into NOLA)
Robert Wallace…I would have to say you are wrong on two counts, one…this is a dog and pony show and two…CSX will wait to the last minute and say, no, to using a portion of it’s tracks for the “City of New Orleans” that will travel from Chicago to Orlando, Fla. A recent inspection train did find some small irregularities in the trackage from Pensacola, Fla to Tallahassee, Fla and some upgrading was needed for repair for improvement of that area, along with adding PTC. The approval has already been given by CSX and Amtrak…funding for this project is all that is needed, which will come soon, from both Washington through the transportation Department and from States involved in seeing this project up to it’s full fruition.