I am in the early planning stages of my trackplan and have these 3-way turnouts I’d like to use to save space. I plan to operate them manually, but the instructions say I still need a PL-13 switch. Does that mean that I have to operate an electrical switch as well as manually operate the turnout?
Second question is that they referr to the included sleeve material. There is nothing but the turnout with wires attached and an additional roll of wire. Suggestions for a replacement sleeve material, should i decide to use these turnouts?
Like I said, it’s the early planning stages, but no sense in planning to use something which I later decide is more than I want to tackle.
I had two of these in my yard to save space. They were replacements for older brass turnouts, so I had already wired the tracks with relays and power that the electrfrogs took care of. I powered these with Peco switch machines just to move the points. I had no additional wiring besides the pre-existing relays. The relays should not be necessary if the turnouts only feed stub-end sidings.
The 3-way has springs just like a regular Peco turnout, the can be operated by hand. Nothing wroing with putting insulated joiners on the diverging routes and then appling feeders further down the line.
The turnout will be more reliable if you make the modifications per the Wiring for DCC site and power the frogs, but they will work out of the package.
Peco PL 13 is mechanically operated by the “other” end of the PL10 switch motor. You have to install the PL13 onto the underside of the PL10, I use glue. Silicone is probably better since changing your mind is not feasible if you use glue.
The electrical part of the PL 13 a DPST (I may have that acronym backwards) and is for changing frog polarity. My guess is a three way turnout will need two motors and two PL 13 but I haven’t done the diagram.
If you use the hand of God switch motor then you’ll need to figure out how to also manually change the frog polarity.
Mind you, for most applications an Electrofrog with a dead frog works as well as an Insulfrog with one exception. Peco power route their turnouts (and chose not to for their new Unifrog which will eventually supplant both earlier versions) so you will need to isolate the inner rails on any turnout route that may receive DCC power back from that diverging route. Reason is the inner diverging rails may short when the power is routed by the turnout and the other end of the diverging route is also powered. Opposite phase is possible. It’s a similar issue to accidentally creating a reversing loop, but different technically.
Well, pretty much anywhere, DC or DCC, unless it’s in a yard. Even on DC I doubt you want to kill the entire main past the frog of a turnout. Kill the siding maybe. You don’t want all the power for the layout past a certain point going through the point contact of one measly turnout set in said main.
Power routing turnouts do not need to be insulated if they dead end on both diverging routes. If one route connects to a powered section of rail then isolating the frog rails is indeed mandatory. The blue/red rail diagram quickly illustrates why. No short (phase conflict) if the siding is not powered from the diverging route side.
Continuous powering of the mainline is what causes the phase conflict. If the diverging routes are only powered from the toe of the frog then no phase conflict can arise. For DC block wiring an unpowered Electrofrog frog is also best isolated though not necessarily so. If you have a passing siding then the phase conflict or short can arise. One turnout lined for main while the other end is lined for the siding will do it. Since this happens routinely when using the siding to pass trains the problem would arise frequently. For this reason it is a good idea to isolate the diverging rails and pass the power across with a block control switch (power district control for DCC).
Thank you all for your respoonses. My son helped me do some work on the trainroom itself last night, so didn’t have time to respond.
Let’s see if I got this right.
If i insulate all three routes and power the rails beyond with seperate feeders, it should work without shorting.
If I use two face to face (3 track end to 3 track end) there would be a short, since manually turning them I would not be turning then at the same time.
I’d like to leave the wires long enough so if in the future I (or someone else) wanted to power them, how long ahould I leave the wire and does it need to be shielded?
Maybe if they don’t have sound - but real locos don’t shut off and go silent when sitting parked on a siding - at least not until the most modern diesels. Even steam locos, unless the fires are completely dropped because the loco needs service.
Yes - modern ones. It’s part of one of the Tiers of emissions requirements, of which I am sure there is an equivalent if not stricter standard North of the border. It’s entirely automatic on newer locos, and the system can even start it back up periodically if the temperature is low, because with hundreds of gallons of colling water per loco, they tend not to bother with antifreeze.
But I model the 50’s, so unless the crew was going off duty and no one was scheduled to use the loco until the next day, and it was warm enough overnight, they left it running and just took the reverser handle. On cold Winter nights, even if the loco was sitting there for 12 hours, it was left idling so the radiator wouldn’t freeze up (or the block). Even under ideal conditions, warm weather and all - there was always a chance with older batteries that the thing wouldn’t start up the next day, and you can’t just pull a convenient car over and jump a loco. Worse would be the air start Alcos, if the air all leaked down, then you’re really stuck. Air start semis sometimes had a hand pump, but I don’t think that would be too practical for the volume of air needed to spin a loco prime mover. Modern battery technology, plus the requirements where every milligram of particulate emission counts, have made the modern auto-start systems worthwhile and pretty much required.