I believe this is my first post on this board and I was wondering if someone could help me with prototype info on a EMD Penn Central GP-7. I have a UP GP-7 that I am re-painting for Penn Central, I really thought I could use the same green that the freight was colored and things I’ve read on the internet say that PC didn’t have a standard, they used diffent shades of green and the DG&LE or Harvest green for the locos. I’d really like to have a green PC loco on my layout but I’m not sure how prototypical that is. Has anyone ever seen a PC loco with the same color green used on the freight? Any info, links or pics would be greatly appreciated.
PC was a company in trouble from the day it was formed. It never had any money to do anything. As I recall the bulk of engines were black with the PC logo in white or red and white. I believe the original intent was to paint everything green but they never had the money to do that. The first engine unveiled to the public was the NYC green with a red P and a white C on the long hood. I wouldn’t worry too much about what shade of green you use as long as it is close. We obsess on having everything the same color but time and weather have the real thing many shades. On PC engines that includes a large portion of rust for the most part.
Yup, PC engines were all black. Both PRR and NYC’s engines at the time of the merger were black, so it was easiest and most cost effective route was black.
One of the reasons I asked was because I see a Mantua GP-20 in PC green on Ebay from time to time, but when I went to look for prototypes the only thing I could find was some Geeps in a very very dark green. I would really like to paint it green but not a very bright green. Maybe I’ll do a forest green with a black wash for weathering, rust up the trucks a little bit and paint the hand rails (which I have to make from wire) and wa-la! I should have a pretty nice loco. Since I’m building a free-lance layout I think I can get away with it. [;)]
Mantua paint schemes are notoriously bad. I wouldn’t base any repaint on a Mantua paint scheme. At the very least Google image search on Penn Central and look at some prototype pictures. The only PC green diesels I know of were E units. GP20’s should be black.
Dave H.
P.S. PRR engines weren’t really black they were a very dark green that coul easily be mistaken for black.
I quite agree. If PC stuck – or got stuck – with the old PRR livery (not Tuscan Red, the other one), most of the locos (such as GG-1) would have been “Brunswick Green,” the dry martini of black: something like 13-14 parts black and one part field green. If the motive power were clean, and if the light were good, at the right angle the Brunswickers would give off a subtle irridescence, like a Japanese beetle. Some of the diesels were in such bad shape that after being dragged thru their fumes, the exterior would probably BE black!
OTOH, I remember in the summer of 1969 (pre-receivership, but already in deep trouble), the GG-1 on our Wash - NYPenn train had been painted black. No irridescence. No sheen at all. And that ugly “PC” stencil (shudder).
You have to remember that even in the “good old days” paint shades and colors varied widely-one car or engine shops paint may not match the next one,or even the stencils for lettering may be different.
Got an E-advertisement from Atlas the other day, and they showed a Penn Central GP-7, in black. I don,t think it will be out until June or July though ? That’s the only color I’ve ever seen them in. If you go to the Atlas site, they might have a picture of it. Just thought I’d mention it.
Thanks for your comments everyone. It sounds to me that I could get away with a very dark green. I really don’t want to go all black, blah. [tdn] Maybe when I model my prototype RR I’ll make it true blue BLACK. LOL
Another option is to paint one representing a GP-7 right after they took over the New Haven. IIRC, I’ve seen one picture of a NH red, white and black unit with the New Haven markings painted over and the “worms in love” applied. The book is Penn Central Power by Robert Yannosey (sp?), unfortunately it is elswhere right now and I don’t have access to it.
Your original question was what color to paint an engine to match the prototype. If you are going to paint it any color you like, not the color of a prototype Penn Central unit, why did you ask the question?
You’re right, I did say that didn’t I. Sorry for the confusion, I think I just don’t know what I want to do with it. But after getting some opinions I guess I changed my mind. [:O]
This question shows up on the PC email lists from time to time. Penn Central diesels, for the most part, were black. There might have been a few painted dark green. However, these were the exception, rather than the rule–maybe ex-PRR shops wanting to use up old paint?
Other oddities were PC’s FL9s. Many of these were in blue and yellow. Also consider that some former NYC, PRR, and NH power still worse their battered old paint even to Conrail. These had the old names and logos painted out, and worm decals applied in their place.
IIRC (and I may not), those were Rio Grande locos that PC picked up to complete a batch of trade-ins … and discovered that old beat-up Rio Grande engines ran better than anything else on the lot. So they kept 'em and turned in some REALLY junky locos to complete the set. They were not repainted, though, because they were needed out on the line worse.
OP: I commend to your attention books PC Power and A Sampling of Penn Central, which may help you with pseudo-prototypical ideas.
Not unless the Rio Grande served Grand Central Station.
The 60 FL-9’s were build exclusively for the New Haven and were unique having a 2 axle lead truck and a 3 axle trailing truck. there were designed to operate on diesel power and then on 3rd rail electric into Grand Central Station.
Those were ex-Rio Grande F7s. PC picked them up for trade-in on new power. A few eventually got repainted–the giveaway is the dual headlights. Both NYC and PRR units only had a single headlight.
BTW, if you’re looking for a copy of Penn Central Power, be prepared to pay up for it.
