Here is a link to an article describing the railroads future with the gas industry in PA. http://www.pabusinesscentral.com/?p=1680
Thanks! Here’s the link (working):
The area of Pennsylvania spoken of is/ was a major producer of coal, There was a lot of strip mining and some shaft mines as well. The point being is there were large deposits of coal. Apparently, there have been some technological breakthroughs in the way the deposits can be mapped. This has lead to a resurgance of drilling in the area of coal deposits, specifically aimed at recovering natural gas from pockets along the coal deposits.
For the last several years in the area of S.E. Kansas there has been quite a lot of drilling being done to recover this gas from pockets in the coal seams in the area of Neosho,Labette, Montgomery and Cherokee Counties in SE Kansas. These wells have been connected by pipelines to pumping stations and points of concentration prior to transporting the gas. When the price of gas is up the activity level is also up, consequently, when the price of gas is down, so is the activity level. They do not seem to have a lot of people around to maintain the operations, as one might expect. Bear in mind here in Kansas most of the piplines were made with flexible piping, not primarily steel pipe.
I would guess in the case of Pennsylvania, the secondary road net will be a good reason to look for transport by rail into collection/distribution points for the pipeline and drilling supplies. The railroads as stated in the article would be in a good position to move large quantities of supplies in and out really quickly. For sure it will be interesting to see how the new gas operations will effect Penna.
So that’s it? Just bringing in the pipe and supplies?
Isn’t there anything to be said concerning the transportation of the gas itself to users? I suspect that a loading facility somewhere on site would be a lot less expensive to built, and a lot less environmentally sensitive, than another long pipeline to some processor. And almost as safe.
Comments?
I think that would be a little easier said than done, although I kinda wonder myself. If one looks at what there has been going on in some parts of Alberta–occasional explosions brought to you by people who have issues with natural gas wells et al–then I’d be looking a lot closer at that idea. [:-^]
Well they may look into hauling the gas, but from what I read the sand and water movements could provide constant traffic flow on the rails.
Natural gas by rail? In a word, NO! not even remotely doable. To make a load of enough to pay it would have to be liquified. Then how do you keep it at about -250 degrees? I am sure that the DOT would laugh themselves silly at the idea.
Why would you even consider it when all you have to do is pump it into a pipe?
Change “demanding” in the article to “reckless” and you begin to see why the railroad industry is a tad cautious in dealing with the oil & gas pipeline people. Southern (Trinidad) and Western (Roan Plateau) Colorado coal country have seen the boom to bust cycles.
OK, you’ve got the enthusiasm, and that’s good.
Now go get the knowledge, that’s better.
Put 'em together. Don’t loose the enthusiasm, but heed the knowledge. Study history, economics and commerce. Above all, always learn. You’ll do well for yourself and others.
It is quite doable, nitrogen and oxygen are transported in liquid form - heck, even helium is transported in liquid form. The main issue is economic, as I would find it hard to imagine a scenario where transporting methane by rail cheaper than by pipeline.
- Erik
Erik & others:
Per Greyhounds suggeastions here are a couple of links that will assist you in understanding (for laymen) some interesting facts about LNG:
http://www.naturalgas.org/lng/lng.asp and also
I would also recomend a search using the term: “LNG Transport”;it will add a lot more to your information as you learn how and why of LNG.
Happy surfing!
No Erikem, Not doable. Oxygen and Nitrogen are cheap and non flammable. These gases are maintained in the liquid state by being under pressure and allowing the excess pressure to vent to the atmosphere to maintain the temperature. Lots of luck with venting LNG as you pass thru town. Helium is VERY expensive and the dollar loss during transit would be prohibitive, to say nothing of the difficulty maintaining the low temperature. Gaseus He is transported by rail.
Kinda funny that–seems that they’ve been transporting it by RR for a few years now–and we did not have the disasters that have been foretold. There has been no difficulty with venting as much what some critics have said—then again those that have worked in this field and have put up websites about this such as those involved in the industry must be trying to indoctrinate people into believing it then[:-^]
The website for Chart Industries specifically states that their SR-603 cryogenic tank car is suitable for transporting LNG. One way to minimize problems with venting is to ensure that enough air is mixed in to keep the resulting mixture below the combustible range. Another approach to minimize venting is to use a cryocooler to keep the LNG’s vapor pressure low.
While helium is shipped by rail (and by ship) as compressed gas - that’s as much because liquifying helium is expensive as due to concerns about loss due to venting. The dewars for NMR magnets (which includes most MRI magnets) will hold a charge of liquid helium for months (of course the stuff is not being sloshed around).
Nope. No one is going to move large quantities of compressed or liquified natural gas by rail, long term, in a general market, instead of building a pipeline. The cost threshold for rail is just too high. However, depending upon the characteristics of the gas, there can be a significant quantity of natural gas liquids such as propane and butane, of casinghead gasoline, and liquid sulfur, to be moved by rail.
RWM
http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_092191552.html?start:int=0
Looks like North Shore Railroads in Pennsylvania are investing in this and are reaping the benefits.
A very reliable source has been telling me for the past 9 months or so that he and his crews have been busy rehabbing and building new industrial sidetracks and yards across the northern tier of Pennsylvania to handle the inbound materials - mainly the special sand that’s used for hydro-fracturing or ‘‘fracking’’ of the shale - as well as pipe and machinery, etc.
I’ll read the links that have been so kindly posted here by others on the transport of LNG and CNG, before I ‘Open mouth and insert foot’ . . . In the meantime, it might be worth noting that major local employer Air Products & Chemicals, Inc. has a plant in Wilkes-Barre that specializes in producing the huge oversize vessels/ towers that are used for processing of natural gas - mainly ‘refining’, I think - but there are also several ‘spin-off’ cryogenics firms around here as well - e.g., Gardner Cryogenics.
Finally, with regard to pipelines, you might be surprised how many old lines are mothballed but the rights-of-ways are still intact in this past of Pennsylvania, and could be re-used, so as to get past that formidable hurdle. For example, at the Oxbow Curve in the Lehigh River Gorge State Park, I can show you the spot where the original late 1800’s John D. Rockefeller/ Standard Oil pipeline from the northwestern PA oil fields to New York City is still intact and crosses over the old LV and CNJ roadbeds and the river via a dual pipeline - which also crosses under the western end of the former L&NE yard at Pen Argyl . . . and somebody still responds when you make a '1-cal