Saunders possibly also saw himself as one of the great railroad tycoons: my memory of him is a large photo in Business Week magazine, 3 piece suit with watch chain across his belly posed with one foot on a rail. Just another master of the universe!
His foot on a bar rail? I thought that anyone who knew anything about railroads knew that you do not step on rails.
We lost the Q1, then the S1 and S2, then the Q2’s and T1’s, all the Niagaras, all the Hudsons, then Penn Station, then the whole Pennsylania and New York Central Railroads. They took many with them. America lost too much too fast, facilitated by guys like Saunders. To your great credit the ruins of these roads were salvaged and made right again by Conrail, political will and necessity but I contend much of it should never have occurred in the first place.
Saunders went to the N&W briefly for one reason only and that was to destroy the last stubbornly holdout of steam. Was he smart ( obviously not) or the hit man put into place to bring it all down.
We still lament the whole thing because it is so unbelievable. Penn Station was a outright blatant crime.
What happened to the hockey jersey photo? I don’t think Mr. North was serious when he said he could live without it, unless he’s a fan of another team.
And Deggesty, you made a VERY good point! Probably more profound than any of us realize. I mean, how do you lead veteran railroaders when you demonstrate your ignorance of a basic railroad safety rule?
It’s not true that Saunders went to N&W “briefly.” He started with N&W in 1939 and worked his way up in the law department until serving as president from 1958 to 1963. It’s ridiculous to say that he only became president to get rid of steam.
An equal helping of blame for Penn Station’s loss must go to James Symes. Demolition was conceived and fully planned during his tenure. Symes became president in 1954, then chairman in 1959. Saunders took over as chairman on 10/1/1963 and the wrecking ball began swinging on 10/28/1963.
You said it, not me!
On the other hand… the idea of not stepping on rails is part of the ‘culture of safety’ that keeps people from being injured or killed. Why tell Saunders about that?..
‘Red’ hot link to it is still there (right under the name plaque) and picture comes up when you click it.
Naughty, naughty![:)]
Wanswheel- Some superb digging up of historical information-top notch!
From the paper clip…“has pledged to stockholders his determination to restore the “Pennsy” to the forefront of the transportation industry” The phrase “Epic Fail” has not yet been invented.
…from the video clip he is boasting about the anticipated industrial expansion along the N&W that should translate into thousands of new carloadings…it means nothing, just empty rhetoric. Maybe the business all went to trucks or they lost more than they gained. There are no specifics about new signed contracts or any factual information. It’s a bunch of hooey.
Was this man ever held accountable for the incredible economic failures that followed him, the desperation fixes and vast waste of capital and destruction that all came to light…no, they justified everything and danced their way through enriching themselves.
I have to agree that the demo of Penn Stayion was abad thing almost any way you look at it. However, remember that there was no great outcry until it had been reduced to a oopen construction site, when it was way too late to reconsider. Why was that? Didn’t the city realize what they weere losing? I don’t know, of course, but I think it might have been because PS had become infamous for its dirt. Iwas in and out of PS frequently during the late 40’2 and again in its final years. The place was filthy. I once asked a station emplyee why. He said that during the war. station staff was cut drastically and never replaced, Therefore, the dirt built up. The place looked (and smelt) terrible Women. were especially repulsed> So it was no surprise that there wasn’t Much opposition to the demo. I think a lot of New Yorkers and commuters were actually happy to see it go.At least it seemed that way at the time. Yes, it’s sad and a shme it’gone and never cleaned up. Sometimes I wonder if thePS was allowed to deteriorate on purpose. probably not. It was probably just one of those poor management practices the PRR had fallen into. Sad,really sad.
Well, we should look at the other side of the coin, at least for a bit.
It is true that with the slow death of the American passenger train Penn Station had become a “white elephant” that had outlived it’s original purpose and was a drain on the PRR’s finances. Certainly the building, if saved, could have been remodeled and repurposed internally for other uses, but remember back in the 60’s few people, if any, even thought that way. “It’s old, it’s obsolete, it goes” was the prevailing mindset.
Look at it this way, maybe Penn Station had to die so others like Grand Central Terminal might live. Man’s a funny animal, sometimes he needs a helluva wake-up call to realize what’s going on around him and what he’s going to lose if he’s not careful.
Backtracking a bit to Stuart Saunders, he certainly wasn’t an evil man, far from it, but instead of staying in the law department where he might have done some good he managed to “waterwalk” his way to the top of the heap eventually finding himself in a position that he was totally unfit to handle by training and temperament. It happens, in government, business, and the military. It’s not for nothing Lawrence Peter came up with “The Peter Principle.”
Ramrod/Firelock76- The City of New York, The State of New York and the Federal Government and the very top people of the mighty Pennsylvania RR all function in elite circles at these very high levels. These were important people, leaders, shakers, intellects. They knew better. Tax concessions, restoration/clean up monies could easily have been had even back then. The almighty buck won at all levels. The destruction of the PRR continued to its final demise.
Passenger revenue was never important to the bottom line. The demise of passenger trains was of benefit to the railroads.
I believe that today’s remaining subterranean Penn Station is the busiest in America. It’s functional but “Let them eat cake” comes to mind. Of course Washington Union Station has been restored to its former glory along with its raving reviews and self congratulatory pats on the head.
The picture of Saunders and Perlman speaks volumes. They are pretty pleased with themselves. “Here we are, we pulled off the heist and boy are we rich. It’s all ours to do with as we please.” Reading on in the report in a years time 61% of Trainmasters, 81% of Transportation Superintendents, 44% of Division Superintentents ( 80% in a year and half) and all but one General Manager were replaced by people with less than a years experience. So they gutted the officer core. Ensuing choas creates lost cars and even whole trains, no billings or multiple billings. Cars kept in motion for lack of someone to go. Yards choked. The picture says “we know what’s coming and it’s going to be fun when we cut bait and watch it all go to hell”. The picture says " we don’t give a damn about employees or service or tradition". The picture says “I put Penn Station in a swamp in New Jersey, got stinking rich and no one could do anything about it. Man are we going to be wealthy”. The picture says " You are all fools".
Its all wrong because it’s not in the spirit of free enterprise, responsibility, leadership, fairness, nation building and good intentions. I do not believe for a moment his intentions were honourable In any way.
Is this in the right thread? [}:)]
An Episcopal priest I knew grew up in New Jersey in the late 1950’s & 1960’s, and knew enough about the reputation of the place so that for years, he said, he thought the phrase in the Lord’s Prayer was “…and lead us not into Penn Station.”