Philosophy Friday -- How Do You Develop a Locomotive Roster ???

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I suspect I am about to as a very under-stated question with lots of side-issues and subjective answers… but here goes anyway…

How does one develop a locomotive roster?

I’m not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a “real” railroad. And I’m certain there are about as many approaches to this as there are railroads. And I’m pretty sure that there is at least some measure of serendipity at play as well.

Yup, I'm gonna need six of those...

So how does a novice Model Railroader know which locomotives to select? What features to look for-- or add-on later? What details are specific to a single locomotive versus typically added to all/most locomotives of a class or a fleet, versus what all/most railroads did? How do you go about selecting specific locomotives for the roster?

How does one know, for instance, that a 2-6-4 Pacific is not generally a good choice for hauling long coal drags through the mountains of West Virginia? Or conversely that a 2-8-8-8-2 Triplex is probably not the best lineup for the top-of-the-line premier passenger service…?

2

I’m not very scientific about it. If I see a locomotive i like, I buy it and then I figure out how it fits into my layout and its story.

The things I like are slide-valve steam and shays (small ones - class A - 25T or less). I like them to have character and that’s hard to describe, but I know it when I see it. I also have a “thing” for rail busses, especially ones that look like back-shop projects (lots of character). Finally, I prefer brass, so I buy mine used and fix them up.

I also like to buy distressed brass models and breath new life into them. These also end up on my layout.

I also have a low bridge that all locos must pass below, so there are some that I decide against just because they are too tall.

I have one loco that is sort of out of character for me: An NWSL 0-6-0. It’s more modern than I usually go for, but it was once owned by Lynn Westcott. As editor of Model Railroader, Westcott had a huge influence on me and the joy I find in the hobby. I bought this loco just because of the connection to him.

For me, I use my heart more than my head when I pick out locomotives.

3

You asked for my opinion, John…From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum. I’m going to move it there.

Tom

4

Yes, but for the MODEL RAILROADER, the issue isn’t that simple is it? In addition to trying to figure out what the prototype did or might have done-- the MODEL RAILROADER ALSO has to figure out how to make those selections within the framework of what’s commercially available, or else what their own scratch-building or customization skills can manage.

It is not simply a “prototype” question at all. There is quite a bit more to the issue than what would the prototype do?

John

5

During my 36 years in this hobby, I have at times attempted to emulate prototypical practice regarding motive power selections–even attempted to keep to “just one railroad” or “just one era”.

All it ever did was make me unhappy and frustrated.

I now buy what I like, which includes big time mainline power only. I don’t care much for switchers or branch line motive power. It has its place–just not on my layout.

I’m way too young, but the ultimate monsters of steam rule my rails…and a professionally weathered Stewart PC Alco C-628 just because I had to have one for old times’ sake.

John

6

John, why don’t you write a book or something? [:-,]

Mark

7

Whatever you like - on your layout, you get to make the decisions [:D]

Here is an old thread about what some people’s engine rosters are like:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151763/1678908.aspx

The thread mentioned above contains references to two previous “what’s in your roster” threads:

Thread from 2007 with 166 answers: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/10254.aspx

Thread from November 2008 with 78 replies: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/142253/1583513.aspx

Have a look at the old threads, and see if you can work out how people have built their rosters :slight_smile:

Smile,
Stein

8

To begin, pick an era/date, a location, and a railroad.

Details, details, details…

Family look is very important (unless chosen railroad acquired a hodge podge of locomotives).

Plausibility is very important.

Acquire as many locomotives as it pleases (they don’t all need to be on the layout at the same time).

The “stiff” and heavy locomotives don’t venture on the branchline.

Best to select locomotives as said at the beginning.

That’s all there is to it.

Mark

9

Pick a prototype. Pick an era. Pick an area.

Get a list of the engines they used in your chosen area in your chosen era.

Try to find those engines.

I model the W&N in 1900-1905. Wisswesser’s “Locomotives of the Reading and Philadelphia & Reading” has an alltime roster which includes all of the W&N engines. There are a half dozen pictures of the engines in the book, plus lots of other pictures of similar engines. The NP F-1 2-8-0 is the same locomotive as 2 W&N engines. There is a drawing of a W&N 4-4-0 in Kalmbach Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia and Gem made a P&R I-5 2-8-0, Mantua makes something close to a B-8 0-6-0.

Run trains.

10

I model one line of a multi-line system. There are other modelers who do this, but I think of the entire railroad. So that makes it harder. I don’t just have to think about what I’m modeling, but the entire railroad.

Modern shortline, several lines in CT, NY, and NJ, several locals, two daily intermodals.

Let’s start with what I’m modeling. There’s a local, the main shops for the system, and a (rather short) daily intermodal. Ok, so that’s one road switcher for the local, a switcher for the shops, and two road switchers for the intermodal.

Now let’s look at the rest of the system. There’s an intermodal line between a CSX yard and a large port in New York. Okay, four SD40-2s for that. On second thought, add in a fifth, so there’s a replacement. And just to mix it up, make two of them SD40-2Ws, and we can justify that by saying they’re for safety.
In Connectuct, there’s a short branch, so we need a road switcher for that. There’s also a branch in NJ, so another switcher there.
Can’t forget about MOW, so a few geeps for that.

Since it’s a modern railroad, we’ll say the three states each funded the purchase of a genset.

So in CT, we have one genset running the branch there.
In NY, there’s the four SDs (5 with the extra) and a genset for the intermodal service.
In NJ, there’s two GP40-2s for the intermodal, a genset for one local, a switcher for the other local, and a switcher for the shops.
There’s also three GP9ms for MOW.

The railroad started out with the three GP9ms for two branch lines.
Four GP50s were purchased for the NY intermodal service.
Two GP40-2s were purchased for service increases.
Three SW1500s were purchased, one for parts, and two rebuilt.
Three gensets purchased for service increases.
Five SD40-2s purchased to replace GP50s (fate of GP50s currently unknown)
[Over time, the GP9ms were replaced and were

11

One layout, three different philosophies at work.

  1. The national monopoly prototype - Locomotives (and DMU/EMU) that were actually seen in service during the target month. I bend only to the extent that I accept the numbers of units that were pre-numbered by the manufacturers - changing them would involve a bit more than simply applying decals. The only exception, seldom run, is a diesel-hydraulic that’s a couple of years early (prototype built in 1967.)

  2. The ‘former management of the coal company’ model. Since the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo served a couple of subsistence-level coal mines and was owned by the company that also owned the mines, the birds managing the property (Cheep! Cheep! Cheep!!!) acquired small tank locos on the second-(third, fourth, fifth)-hand market and ran them until they died. Some proved remarkably difficult to kill, so there are a couple of real antiques on the roster. There are also a number of more modern loco carcasses moldering in the weeds behind the Tomikawa engine house.

  3. The "new blood at the coal company’ model. Serviceable engines pulled out from under ‘too far gone for help’ boilers, combined with serviceable boilers from ‘retired before their time’ National Railways locos, resulting in wheel arrangements never seen in Japan. Newly in service, a 2-6-6-2T (in a country that never had an X-6-6-anything in steam.) On the drawing board - a Garratt and a Golwe. The change in thinking was heavily influenced by developing the best coal seam into a real producer with the introduction of modern methods and machinery - lots more coal to move, and triple-headed 0-6-0Ts aren’t the tractive effort equivalent of a twelve-drivered articulated.

The obvious question about 3 is,&nbs

12

I buy any S scale locomotive the Ma&Pa had in 1953. Out of 4 diesels, 6 steam engines, and 2 gas electrics, I have the 4 diesels (SW1, 2 NW2’s, SW9) and 2 2-8-0 steam engines. I also have the 2-8-0 engine scrapped in 1952. I also buy engines that appeal to me, so I have a B&O 2-8-0 steam engine, PRR GG1, PRR SW1 diesel, C&O SW9 diesel, and a generic 2-6-0.

In general, I am following the Ma&Pa of 1953, but I don’t let it get in the way of buying engines (and rolling stock) that appeal to me.

Enjoy

Paul

13

I should note that my motive power roster keeps changing as my interests and current financial state change. My old roster posts are now outdated, and I’ll have other engines soon that were pre-ordered, so my roster remains rather “fluid”.

An MTH 4-6-6-4 will stay, as will a Bowser/Stewart Alco C-628, and likely the Spectrum K-4 (it’s a great value and good to run for grabby guests especially children).

14

First I enjoy these ‘Philosophy Friday’ topics.

Here’s how I developed my C&HV roster…First C&HV is owned by CDB Industries which owns a family of short lines…The roots of CDBI can be traced to the Cumberland,Dickensonville & Bristol Ry…When the CD&B dieselized it did so with 4 axle EMDs, 4 and 6 axle Alcos and FM yard switchers but,as the years went by it turned more and more to EMD…Today CDBI’s family of short lines is 100% 4 axle EMD Geeps.

Why EMD?

The upper management wanted to streamline the maintenance shops and keep parts from one locomotive manufacturer instead of several…This saved money in maintenance stores operation.

Also CDBI replaced old worn locomotives such as GP7/9,GP18/20s with with new GP38-2s,GP40-2s and GP50s.CDBI also leases 4 axle EMD locomotives by “power by the hour” lease agreement…CDBI maintains a small fleet of SW1000 and SW1500 swtchers.

CDBI has plans on leasing several SD40-2s for CD&B,KC and C&LE unit train operations.

15

Tom,Indeed it is a model related topic since it deals with developing a model roster in fact some of the hobby’s leading operation gurus such as Tony Koester,Bill Darnaby and Eric Brooman has discuss this very topic in the pages of MR.

16

To the Moderators of this Forum

I would like to take a moment to thank you for your kindness and sensitivity.

It meant a lot to me.

Thank you very much.

John

17

The best way to develop a locomotive roster is to get ahold of a real locomotive roster of a railroad that roughly matches what you want to model.

For myself, it’s easy. I model the New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad…all of it. My layout is just between Boston and Providence, but I still buy the occasional NH electric loco (normally found no closer than 100 miles of Providence). I collect all NH loco models. Since I model the mainline, I can easily justify all of the non-electric locos appearing on my layout depending on the era I’m modeling (which some day will vary from steam to diesel).

When I started, I added up all the NH locos they had, and started doing percentage calculations for each engine type. The largest fleets of diesels on the NH were the 65 S-1’s, 60 DL-109’s, 60 FL9’s, 45 RS-3’s, 30 GP9’s, 30 FA-1’s, 27 PA-1’s, and 26 U25B’s. Oddly enough, these are the locos that I have multiple models of. The more rare locos…I don’t have too many of. It’s pretty easy when you pick one railroad to model.

Doing it from scatch for a “home road” layout is, IMHO, harder to construct. Sure, you can get anything you want, but making it logical (if that’s your goal) is much harder because you have to have considerable knowledge of what the real locos are for and how they were used. Following a specific prototype roster is much, much easier. Collecting that prototype roster is generally more expensive, but it can be rewarding.

Paul A. Cutler III

18

Since I’m modelling CSX within the last 10 years, I’ve been able to get ahold of several online resources that have CSX locomotive rosters. I also correlate that information with pictures from the area I’m modelling (CSX Dothan Subdivision, between Montgomery and Dothan), along with getting out to the tracks and actually seeing what’s providing motive power on the trains. I also have to take into account that in the area that I’m modeling I’ve also got two shortline interchanges and a railcar repair facility to model. But according to the research that I’ve done I can sufficiently model the shortlines with 4-axle GP’s (that’s what their loco rosters consist of) and the railcar facility doesn’t appear to have an engine of its own. From there I’ve been able to develop a roster.

Of course the roster is going to be ever-evolving as CSX retires some engines, or brings other engines out of storage for duty, so I buy the engines that “fit” in my timeline and then rotate them out as I see fit, since that is how they seem to actually run the trains. One day the locals are powered with EVO’s, next day its a vernerable SD40-2 doing the job, so you can never really know with what I’m modelling.

19

I’ve stopped worrying about what thread belongs to what particular subforum. Anyway, since “we” aren’t responsible for selecting prototype locomotive rosters and we aren’t discussing how prototype railroads do it, how could this thread be construed as a prototype topic?

Mark

20

One of the things that attracted me to the Western Maryland is the fact that it had a roster that you could really get your head around. It was a railroad with two distinct personalities: A winding mountainous Appalachian coal hauler, as well as a fleet footed bridge route, competing for high value freight based on coordinated connections to the east and west.

As such, it had a pretty diverse fleet, but not a terribly large one. Outside of the ubiquitous F units and GP-9’s, they stuck to small batches of specific locomotives that were matched to specific jobs. This also was the practice during the days of steam.

Another factor that was a pleasant surprise, was the availability of many of the key models in N scale. Previously I was trying to model Conrail in the late 70’s, which I thought would be easy due to the rainbow of paintouts, and the vast and varied fleet it inherited from its bankrupt predecessors… A lot could be found, to be sure, but several signature locomotives were missing, and in some cases, still are.

But the WM presented itself with GP-9’s, FA-2’s, GP-40’s, RS-3’s and even BL-2’s early on… You had to paint and letter them, but the models were available. I was still on the fence, though, when Atlas brought out their excellent SD-35 in 1999. The first run was offered in Conrail blue, and WM red white and black… Decisions decisions… I ended up ordering the WM models, and I’ve never looked back. I sold off all of the post 1973 stuff I had, and started accumulating a substantial Western Maryland fleet. My prayers were finally answered when Intermountain announced their excellent F-7 in speed lettering.

So now, outside of a badly needed Alco S- series switcher, I have representatives of just about every class of WM diesel that existed in 1970.

Generally speaking, the first thing one should do is settle on a prototype road, or a prototype location that they fancy. That helps narro