Philosophy Friday -- My Dear Aunt Sally

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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“My Dear Aunt Sally”

In arithmetic there is the mnemonic phrase “My Dear Aunt Sally” intended to prompt recollection in pupils of the operations: “Multiply, Divide, Add and Subtract”, the requisite “Order of Operations” for solving simple arithmetic expressions. As I’ve been designing and building my model railroad layout (for seemingly ever… but we won’t talk about that! [:-^]) it occurs to me that there is a suggested order of operations to follow there as well. Regardless of whether your overall design is meticulously planned or else ad-hoc, when it comes time for the building, it’s best to construct the benchwork-- or whatever supports you’ll be using-- first, and then begin working on the rest of the layout from back to front, starting ideally with the backdrop. And those are the two things I want to talk about today: Order of operations, and backdrops.

Something I hear all the time from folks on the various forums, and know firsthand from my own experience (ask me how I know :slight_smile: is how difficult it is to install a backdrop after the layout has been built. Even if the intention has been all along to “someday” put up a backdrop, there just comes a point when, excepting the most trivial of cases, it becomes difficult if not practically impossible to retrofit a backdrop into the layout. So clearly, decisions regarding backdrops should be made very early on and if so inclined, provisions made at the outset for its creation (or acquisition) and deployment, since nearly every other aspect of the layout construction occurs to the front of it.

Then, focusing on the backdrop itself, the question becomes "What sort of backdr

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I don’t know if there is a proper sequence to building a model railroad. There certainly is a logical order to it though. Bench work, track, scenery. The backdrop should be placed somewhere in that sequence I think.[:)]

I installed my basic backdrop as part of the bench work process. I used 1/4 inch Masonite which I finished as if it were drywall. I counter sunk the screws, taped the seams and blended with mud. I used vinyl spackle so the joints could flex a little without breaking. The sanding was minimal since I wasn’t looking for perfection, just no ridges. Then I primed and painted a sky blue color. I figured that was the very least I wanted to properly frame the scene I’m trying to create.

I built the majority of my layout with just the basic backdrop in place. I’ve just recently gone back to paint in a poor excuse for a river bluff in the background behind my city. I was able to do this because I built the city to a low level of completeness. The buildings weren’t permanently placed. I had hoped to purchase a photo backdrop from backdrop warehouse but couldn’t justify the $400 expense. I also didn’t want a clear picture of the background unless it was the real thing. The city I’m modeling is the city I live in, only sixty years earlier. If I couldn’t have it perfect I didn’t want it even close. After two years of trying to decide what to do, I purchased a bottle of craft paint and did my best impression of Bob Ross. There is now a wall of happy little trees that was created for $6. The lack of perfection clearly matches my ability in other areas of model railroading.

I applaud those that can seamlessly match their layout to a photo backdrop. I was concerned about matching scale, color, and location. I was also concerned that the picture would get more attention than the models in front of it. I figured any backdrop, painted or purc

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I know what works for me, even though I have only erected two layouts:

Conceptualization, plan, and research

Use masking tape on the floor space to show boundaries and the tracks.

Paint the backdrop

Erect the benchwork

Make roadbed and lay bridges and tunnel portals

Rough out engine servicing.

Lay track and wire it

Test track

Cover the tracks and commence scenicking.

Ballast the tracks.

Bob’s yer uncle, and Peg’s yer aunt.

About backdrops: I think a well done photo mounting looks great. However, too often the photograph is of the wrong angle relative to the horizon for the scene on the bench behind which it sits. The wrong photograph will make trains appear to be running on kinked landscapes, or on ridges where there is a flat cornfield, etc. It means it defies credibility. On the other hand, I have seen some astounding hand-drawn backdrops which could almost pass for a photograph. What is more, they don’t command so much attention, if done well, that they impose themselves over the real subject. Mike does that with his backdrops (Mikelhh).

I painted my own backdrop for two reasons: Cheaper, and because I didn’t want what appears on the wall to be competing with the layout for attention. With my talent, it worked out rather nicely. Well, it’s bad enough that maybe I lost that round. [(-D]

I used a cheap artist’s brush and crafty acrylic paints. Started with the sky, tried to blend it to lighter blue as I approached my planned hills, and then painted the hills. Last came the trees. Or whatever they are…

As to retrofitting a backdrop after all the benchwork had been completed, yes, I tried that on my first layout. Accordingly, the backdrop came at the head of the list next time. [;)]

Once again, I have seen some very effective, even stunning photo backdrops, and

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John,

  • The ‘backdrop’ was one of the first major items I install. #1was installing lighting/power.
  • My backdrop is made out of 1/8" Masonite. It is an integral part of the entire layout experience.
  • The backdrop is painted with what I thought was a good ‘sky blue’ and I airbrushed ‘clouds’ on the backdrop with a stencil I picked up at a LHS. There is no painted trees/hills/buildings at this point.
  • The Masonite was cut into 4’ by 8’ sections and mounted on a 2" by 2" framework. It curves around the corners on a 24" radius. Ther is about 77’ feet of backdrop. I used standard drywall mud to patch the seams and the sheetock screws that attach it.

Here is a picture:

Jim

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I’ve got this situation:

I’d love to have a backdrop, but it would overhang the layout, rather than being behind it. A sky, I suppose, would be OK, but I’ve found that the neutral off-white of the wall actually works best for me.

That little triangular wall, though, and the one on the opposite wall, will eventually get some sort of background scene. Since this is still the “family room,” painting the wall is probably not in the cards, but it’s a small space and I think I can mount the background on 3/16 foam poster board.

Some time back, MR did a short article on using a photo background to “extend” a roadway. I decided to try it as an experiment while I was working in that back corner, and I really liked it. As Crandell pointed out, the angle of the picture is very important in achieving this illusion. I actually took the picture looking down the road in front of my house, so I was able to print it, test fit a copy, and then go back for re-takes to get it right.

This is Phase 2 of my layout. So, I was able to apply some “lessons learned” from Phase 1. The biggest one is wiring. On Phase 2, I built the benchwork and then added all the bus wires, before I had anything other than the grid frame in place. I wired in the auto-reverser and broke the bus into districts with circuit breakers, too. A control bus runs the length of the fascia, with jacks for the throttles, and I ran two separate bus lines for structure lighting and street lamps. Now that I’m doing trackwork and scenery, all that early work has really paid off.

I broke the 30-inch-reach rule. So, I built that section of the layout first, and actually built the whole thing on 2-inch foam off-layout before installing it. So, when the first tracks got connected up, they were alread

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our layout was nearly 20 years old by the time we got around to installing a backdrop. Since it was pretty much a permanent fixture of the basement already, we couldn’t put drywall from floor to ceiling like I would have liked to, but we managed to get it looking pretty good. For beginners I would suggest you get your backdrop in and painted first. I used sky blue latex for the entire wall, and then using a rouch stencil, spray painted in the clouds by fogging over the stencil. I start at the bottom and lay in the white fairly heavy, and then fade it in as I work upwards. Here’s the result:

-Stan

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When one plans to start building a model railroad, most of us already know what the basic track plan will be and what type of scenery we want, although it needs to be refined as we are building it.

For the order of operations in building a model railroad, I try to follow the list below:

  • Finish the room and paint the walls a sky blue.
  • Build the bench work and install a basic backdrop if not using the room walls.
  • Put in the roadbed and mainline track, and start wiring.
  • Determine the main scenic elements and their locations.
  • Paint very distant hills on the wall / basic backdrop.
  • Determine more specific scenic elements.
  • Add photo realistic sections or cutouts if desired.
  • Continue laying track and wiring it up until all is running and working properly.
  • Start setting buildings in place to check the scenes desired.
  • Now most work is devoted to scenery at this point.

I do have a backdrop, and I used the room walls as my backdrop, so it was already installed. However, I did have to finish the wall and paint them. I painted the walls a sky type blue, then painted on distant hills. After that I glued on some photo realistic backdrop sections.

I think if you can have a backdrop of some kind you should do it. It greatly increases the visual experience of the model railroad. And I think a backdrop should be a good representative of the continuation of the layouts scenery that enhances the overall visual experience and operation.

Most of my backdrops used the walls of the room the layout was in. However, there were a couple of places that needed special care like going around corners. In those cases I used something called Coil Metal. It came in 24 inch widths and about 60 foot long rolls.

The following photos show some parts of my backdrop.

In these two photos you can see the painted backdrop, a graphic cutout, and then a shallow backgrou

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Starting with the thread title, Sally Belfrage was my classmate, not my dear aunt - but writing a novel to honor her memory is the major impediment to present-day progress on my railroad.

So, back to the subject.

Proper order of operations? Benchwork, cookie-cut subgrade, subterranean trackage (of which I have lots!), more cookie-cut roadbed, paint the walls (including the one length of “backdrop” across the garage door) bluish white, install rough landforms, install trackwork, detail. This may be completed at one point while, ten feet away, there’s an area where the accumulated junque will have to be moved so benchwork legs will have a place to stand.

When I said bluish white, think hazy humid day in late summer. That’s the distant sky. Since my prototype was at the bottom of a ‘tree’ of steep-sided valleys, very little sky will be visible over the intervening landforms. The ‘backdrop’ will be largely three-dimensional - landforms to be finished with forced perspective foliage and structures, distance emphasized by greater and greater use of blue haze overspray. The rearmost landforms will have a cross-section (perpendicular to the wall) that approximates a hyperbolic curve.

To my way of thinking, the emphasis is going to be on the trains. The backdrop, the forced perspective scenery (rather more abstract than not) and even the trackside structures are there to support the trains, just as the sets on a theatrical stage are there to support and emphasize the actors. That makes the backdrop secondary to the back scenery, which is, in turn, secondary to the immediate right-of-way.

That being said, unless every piece of rolling stock and all the foreground detail is of prototype photo quality, using a highly-detailed photomural backdrop will actually draw the viewer’s eye away from the main centers of attention. If I use a photo of near-distant hills as an insert (vertic

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First find the space, plan… first physical work: the room, the walls, ceiling floor, lighting, electrical…That’s proper. I am not satisfied with lights or electric power and it is going to be problematical to go back and fix it with layout partly up.

Then- back to front. Which I have generally been doing-- little by little.

Sections moved into layout room, August 2009. [Strips up on wall to hold background sections. Shelves supported atop bookshelves at 57 inch elevation, to clear lower half of window

– If you have a backdrop on your layout, when did you install it in the overall sequence of things? Laid out simultaneously with building section benchwork in garage and before move into layout room. Basic backdrop 80% roughed in and 75% installed BEFORE benchwork sections installed. But location and placement of pasted-on details continues, to coordinate with decision and construction of 3D structures and track.

What kind of backdrop did you use? 1/16 inch styrene from 4 x 8 foot sheets, each sheet cut into three lengths, 16 inches high by 8 feet long.

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Well my order of building (after some planning) is:

Whatever room preparation is needed

Benchwork to include whatever support (if any) might be needed for backdrop later on.

Then I cycle through the following steps for small sections.

…Roadbed

…Track

…Wiring

…Testing

Then scenery generally from back to front.

Obviously for larger layouts, you can mix the benchwork in with the other steps. You can also scenic each small section before going on to the next. You can even do the room prep with each section of layout. Really, it’s whatever works best for your situation.

For my current layout I am using benchwork salvaged from my 2 previous layouts which is enough to fill the layout space - so I’m doing it all first. Scenery will be after all the track is and tested because operations are where my current interest is. Later I’ll paint the backdrop and do some scenery.

My backdrop will be simple - a blue sky and a few clouds. I want the backdrop to be neutral to the point of not being noticed. For me its only purpose is to prevent what is beyond the back edge of the layout from being a distraction.

Enjoy

Paul

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When I started lurking on this forum, everything I read said to do your backdrop first. It took an iron will but here is the photographic proof. I held out and left the track and locos in the box until I got the foundation properly in place.

I look at this next pic as being my blank canvas. Even though the track plan was drawn up.

As far as what goes on the backdrop. What looks good depends on the layout. There is no one size fits all. I think the level of detail on the backdrop should be in balance with what’s in front of it. There are many ways or combination of ways to do a scenic backdrop. I tend to agree that real photo’s will often steal ones eyes away from the layout ( a detail imbalance ) As a result I have changed my mind about using real photographs. Though I have two very small spots where I may still try a photo strategically placed.

I have a few friends who are incredible artist. One has her own gallery. Some of their work hangs in our home and some are meant to and do look like real photo’s. For a while I thought I would get them to do my backdrop for me, but as time has gone on I am feeling inclined to do it myself, as this is my project not theirs. After all a fix is only a roller and can of blue paint away. I’m glad I bought the big can.[:-^] My artistic abilities leave stick men running for clothes but I’ll give it a go when the time comes.

It can be tough doing things in the proper order and/or doing it right the first time. But for those of us that do the rewards make it easier to do the next time.

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You want reality or theory?

Reality - the order of events I have actually used:

  • build some or all benchwork
  • add enough temporary track and wiring to get a train moving
  • replan
  • add basic scenery and terrain
  • replan
  • replace temporary track with handlaid
  • replan
  • put in proper wiring infrastructure
  • build some structures
  • detail the scenery
  • extend the track into another scene, and repeat

Note I have never done a backdrop yet. But with the layout being started being a shelf layout with a “roof”, the plan is to incorporate a plain blue backdrop with the benchwork. I was going to repaint the walls in the layout room (small bedroom) a light blue, but replacing the carpet is not in the budget. An 18" high backdrop between layout and roof shelf will suffice. I’ve gotten smart enough to not make the backdrop an integral part of the layout but a separate piece mounted to the shelf standards. I plan to use poster or foam board for the 1st try - I see no need for masonite or similar, at least on my 1st effort.

But I can see reality of getting temporary track and running trains getting ahead of the shelf roof and backdrop!

Fred W

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– What do you believe the proper “Order of Operations” is for constructing a model railroad?

If I could figure out how to do it, I’d have it so you lay the track first, and get everything operating perfectly, then you can build the benchwork only where it’s necessary!

– If you have a backdrop on your layout, when did you install it in the overall sequence of things? What kind of backdrop did you use? And does that fit with your internal notion of what type of backdrop is “right” for your layout, or was it simply an expedient? (In other words, if you weren’t able to make/get what you wanted, did you simply settle for something else instead?)

Like Mr. Beasley, I’m working in the attic, so two sides of my train room are at 45 degree angles. I simply painted it all a sky blue, and let the lighting do the rest.

The skyboard you see going off to the right is the scenic divider out onto the peninsula. I made it with a 12" door panel, which I might have used something a tad wider if one had presented itself. It’s high enough to catch the tops of the hills and the building flats on the other side, but low enough that operators can see each other and follow their trains to some extent without a serious view block.

– What are your thoughts / opinions about backdrops in two contexts, first “in general”, and secondly specifically regarding your layout? Do you think backdrops should be a conscious part of the visual experience of the layout, or else something abstract just out of visual awareness that simply supports the rest of the layout? Or maybe something in between…?

I believe that photo back drops have their place, just not on my layout. They’re expensive (strike one!) they’re most likely not going to conform to my space (strike two) and

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I think Fred has it nailed!

Order of operations inplies a start and a finish, and most projects are like that. When I build a piece of furniture there is a fairly standard sequence of operations and there is a moment at which the project is complete, for example. However, model railroading is different - there is no end. All model railroads I’ve seen (except those in hobby shops and museums) are never-ending works in progress. For that reason, we are frequently revisiting every step and do the best we can to blend new work with old work.

That said, there are a few sub-projects that I generally always do in sequence:

  • I lay track, test run it for a few months, then do scenery, then add ballast.
  • I construct a building, then trace its footprint, then make a foundation, then do scenery, then wire and install the building onto the foundation
  • When I construct a building I cut window and door openings, assemble the structure, paint it, paint the windows and doors, then install the windows/doors into the structure.

When it comes to backdrop, I’ve never done one. I’ve seen some amazingly good ones in photos, but I assume that the interface of backdrop/layout cannot help but look a little awkward when viewed at an angle different from the angle of the photo. Still, I may try my hand at it someday;&n

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I am building a modular N scale layout, consisting of mini-modules of roughly 6" by 12". The mini-modules will eventually be put together to form a layout on my desk, so the order of construction may vary a little from that of building a more permanent layout in a room.

Here is my order of construction:

Dream

Plan (even with a modular layout like mine, it helps to have a master plan)

Build “benchwork” - 3 pieces of plywood glued and nailed together

  • Lay track
  • Paint & weather track
  • Ballast track
  • Add Styrofoam scenery & paint it
  • Add ground cover and foliage
  • Add scenic details
  • Weather the whole module

Building a module is a weekend´s job, with most of the time spent waiting for the glue to set. You may miss the wiring part in the above list, but wiring is done when assembling the modules to form a layout. Basically, it just means hooking up a few wires to the powerpack and switch controllers.

So far, I have finished two modules, but there are more to come!

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Dream… Plan… Build…

Say, that’s catchy! You might have something there.

Suddenly I have this terrific idea… why don’t you put together a compendium of model railroading information-- maybe feature a layout or two and give some tips. You could even do it in video form and skip all that writing. And how’s this for distribution… just spit-ballin’ here… maybe you could put it out on DVD-- even just send it out to folks on spec-- if they like it, they buy it. If not, they send it back…

Whaddaya think, could it work???

[(-D] [swg] [(-D] [swg] [(-D] [swg] [(-D] [swg] [(-D] [swg]

John

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BTW, your module rocks!

John

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John,

there are so many H2 videos on model railroading on youtube.com, some of them really good, some of them - well, ahem, not so good. Adding another amateurish video makes no sense to me. After all, I still think I am not good enough - I know, I am my worst critic!

But thanks for the kudos!

Edit: I may consider to write up a feature on mini-modules once I have built a few more, either for MR or this forum.

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Ulrich,

I was pulling your leg (kidding you)-- there is already a DVD video series called “Dream, Plan, Build” [swg]

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/118442/2054799.aspx#2054799

(or use the search thingy for more…)

John

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Seems to be not my day today, John, or my English is failing (ailing?)

But seriously, for years I have been searching for ideas on how to build a small, unusual layout. MR, just like most mags, caters more for those with an abundance of space, but only less for us “apartment dwellers”. It could be an inspirational feature for quite many folks.

Let´s see…

(Next time you´re pulling my leg, please give me a warning!)