Guys,As a former railroader I will tell you up front there is no “romance and mystique” in railroads…Its nothing more then a transportation system…Even back in the so called “Glory years” there was no romance and mystique…
In the so called “Glory Years” and according to shippers/receivers the rails are to slow…To the general public its a nuisance.Fast forward to today and nothing has changed.The shippers are still moaning the blues about rail transportation…The public still sees the railroad as a nuisance.
Todays railroads still haul what they did 50 years ago.The Boxcar is still hauling everything from golf balls to scrap rubber.From bagged grain to bagged cement.
As far as passenger trains…They died in the 60s and was buried in 71…Then came the big lie that many still believe today…That lie? Amtrak could make money hauling passengers in 10 years.39 years later and its still loosing money.
Then came the decaying years, then first round of mergers,then the formation of Conrail.We can’t overlook the two major bankrupt railroads that was liquidated…Then we have the mega mergers with a new buzz word “seamless transportation”.
When I was growing up, cowboys were a cornerstone of our culture. When was the last time you saw a cowboy movie, or a cowboy-themed TV series? Maybe it’s because present-day cowboys wear team-logo windbreakers and baseball caps, and ride the range in Jeeps and ATVs. Not much nostalgia there, I’m afraid.
I remember magazine ads from fifty or more years ago, when the AAR was trying to remind people that there was never a day when they didn’t use the railroads - by using the products that made up rail freight. I don’t think those ads ever made much of an impression with people who were, for the most part, firmly convinced that the center of the universe was co-located with their personal navels.
Back in the '60s I actually rode the City of New Orleans from its namesake to Rantoul, Illinois. The experience was nothing like the song, nor was it particularly inspiring. But then, I have always considered transportation of any kind to be mundane and unromantic - I am one of those who refers to winged transportation machinery as, “Trash Haulers.”
Someday there may be a great resurgence of passenger rail travel. About the same time I would expect bovine droppings to become a major nuisance under the approaches to most airports. It may happen - but I consider it to be about as likely as the end of the world in 2012.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - railroads included)
Modern trains are boring to me, not having enough variation in rolling stock (gimme the ol’ peddler freight), though I do like to hear any big machine work hard. Modern trains are effiecient and I hope they have a solid future.
That being said, I caught a few minutes of a show on NatGeo the other night about oil just disappearing one day. First thing I though was “sure hope there’s a few boilermakers and pipefitters left when the it hits the fan”. All the documentation and design work is still around for steam locos. If we did run out of oil, we could recover quickly (albeit with some disregard for the environment, on a temporary basis) by using the steam loco again.
Part of the lack of public awareness of railroading can be laid at the feet of the railroads themselves. Except for “Operation Lifesaver” type PR stuff and the commercials about the fuel efficiency of trains, precious little is done to keep the railroads in the public favor. In fact, as in the case of Union Pacifics browbeating the model manufacturers into paying royalties for using UP’s moniker, they work against their own best interests, IMHO. What harm was done to the company by railfans and companys using UP or other absorbed flags logos? It seemed to just be designed to alienate the best friend the railroads have (other than the corporate lobbyist), the model railroader and railfan.
The last time I went by the Tehachapi Loop, the place was paved with “No Tresspassing” signs. WTF? For years I visited there regularly, and never once saw a railfan place himself/herself in danger, or damage or deface the railroads property.
Then there’s the often talked about “HIgh Speed Rail”. Not that I’m against new construction projects or useful commuter rail lines. It’s just that every time this old chestnut gets trotted out it just ends up as fodder for the train haters. Stuff like a high speed line to Vegas from LA. Sounds ok on the face
This a very timely topic here in Wisconsin as the debate over a new high speed rail system is heating up. To answer the question, yes the romance and mysticism of rail travel is gone and probably will never return. OTOH, the same thing can be argued for air travel as well. There was a time when passengers dress up to travel, now we are encouraged to wear as few items of clothing as possible whether on a plane or train.
Additionally, we must take into the account the loss of the RPO car and profits that is made for the railroads. I may be mistaken here, but the RPOs made passenger travel affordable to the average person, essentially subsidizing passenger service. Please correct me if I am wrong.
While the romance an mysticism may be gone, I do believe the future can be just as exciting. I would like to point out that there was once a time when if you were out of money on Friday, you had to wait until Monday to make a withdrawal or cash a check, this has made life a little easier for the masses but take away some of the institutional history of banks. (note: this was not in my lifetime) I rode a TGV in France a few years ago and was very impressed. Will passenger rail service ever be that good in America? Probably not, but I can hope.
I believe that it CAN be brought back… Especially WHEN the gas prices start to escalate again. The unfortunate thing is that some states, e.g. New Jersey, don’t get how vital Passenger service is/can be for it’s citizens. As they continue to cut funding and appointing people in the highest positions who think the best way to run the RR is to cut service and increase fares (which just drives [pardon the pun] people away from using the service and back into their cars [if they have the luxury of owning a car]).
The only way I see the RR’s becoming as “Glamourous” as in “Days of Old” is if they can start purchasing good looking equipment instead of just looking at the “functionality” of the cars, locos, etc…
First the railroads would want to offer passenger service.Think they will want a money losing operation? Not likely.After all Amtrak has proved time and again there is no money in passenger trains.
The idea behind any locomotive is to move freight and that fills the bottom line not looks.Freight cars are used for hauling freight and that fills the bottom line.
Don’t forget one thing - passenger travel needs passenger facilities, which cost must be included in the fare if a railroad is to make a profit. A sack of beans only needs a forklift and a wall to prop it up against until it’s loaded. Is it likely that passenger traffic will make a major comeback? No more than steam locos will.
In the UK, we have many complaints of overcrowding on trains, but then we are a small island, with a still relatively dense rail network, so economies of scale are more readily achievable, because the existing road system has become overloaded in towns and cities. I doubt whether that is the case in the majority of your towns and cities.
Why not simply build it over top of the existing right-of-way? Elevated of course, and gain double-use of the same space. Of course there would be some items of contention / obstacles and the like. But it would solve much of the space issue and keep it out of the path of pedestrians.
Yet, however true, Americans have always allowed people like that to get away with it. Of course they may get an occasional slap on the hand here and there, but overall, Americans seem to have a love-hate relationship with the robber-barons. Same is still true today.
I can’t see the romance and allure of rail travel returning, any more than I can see it returning for air travel. In the past, when the technology was new, it was a path to adventure and mystery of new places. Today the world isn’t as exotic- we all see other parts every day on various media and long distance travel is commonplace. Is there anyone today who really enjoys a plane trip (not the destination, the trip itself)?
If you are a certain age, the technology still holds the allure and sense of mystery from the past days, which is why so many of us older folks are so enamored with steam locomotives, first gen diesels, and aircraft with reciprocating engines. It"s memories of a time we miss.
While I was in Japan, I rode the Shinkansens and I observed that their trackage was laid on a fairly high (~25’ high) berm. Roadways passed through this well below the tack level. While I am no engineer, I have to assume this was the cheapest and most stabile approach. With velocities of 250+ mph projected for 21st century high speed trains, I would have to think that there would be great stresses placed on any kind free standing support structure, especially in curves, etc. Thus, elevated systems supported by girder work might well require extensive daily/weekly/monthly inspection and maintenance. Big bucks! There is also the very real and serious problem of emergency access. A train located 25’ above ground level carrying 500 people would be an absolu
Further, being personally familiar with the sound of passing Shinkansens and American Turbo Trains, I can also see significant problems of noise pollution voiced by the public in urban areas. Would such train travel have to be limited only to daylight hours?!
CNJ831
Ah yes the NIMBYs…There will be a environmental impact study,save the red ring earthworm movement,save our heritage movement,Keep Our Kids Save movement,screams of property devaluation,class action lawsuits by various groups etc…
"From Kalamazoo to Timbuktu, from Kalamzoo and back,
From Kalamazoo to Timbuktu, it’s a long way down the track,
From Timbuktu to Kalamazoo, it’s just as far to go back,
A long long way, a long long way, a long way down the track."
It’s probably the first book I remember, “The Train to Timbuktu.” It was a Little Golden Book, maybe a dozen pages, with illustrations. I read it and re-read it, long past the age when it was too “young” for me. By that time, I’m sure I’d watched my Dad climb on the commuter train for what I thought must be a terribly exciting trip to work into New York City, particularly the thrill of riding the subway every day!
The magic was instilled in me at an early age. No, it’s not very exciting now, when most of our train travel is on commuter rail, and the destination is work. Still, though, when the Red Line train surfaces after Kendall Square and rolls across the Longfellow Bridge, crossing the Charles and giving everyone an incredible panorama of Boston and Cambridge, my eyes turn to the window, and I see a smile on my own face reflected back from the glass.
Noise pollution? You want to talk noise pollution do ya?
I live about a stone’s throw from the former home of theses beasties (well maybe two stones throws - my pitching arm isn’t what it once was!). My wife grew up within blocks of the UP roundhouse in Odgen in the 50s and 60s. She could tell you stories which would curl your ear hairs! [(-D]
But, my gosh, what I wouldn’t give to see and hear one (or more) of them running today!
I think the romance peaked somewhere between the 1890’s and WWI. It’s hard for us to imagine now, but the railroads were a prominent part of most people’s lives. Looking at timetables from that period show many passenger trains even on the branchlines/shortlines. They not only carried people, but also mail, parcels, milk, money, etc. Freights carried all manner of goods and food. Retail businesses such as feed stores, lumberyards had their own sidings. Furniture was shipped via rail. What trucks, planes, and cars carry today was all carried by rail then. A trip of any distance started at the local train station.
Even if the railroads bring back regional passenger traffic and develop better coordinated truck/rail service it won’t be the same. Not only are railroads just one piece of the transportation system, they are no longer the latest and greatest technology.
Just my opionion (for whatever it’s worth), but mystique and romanticism are a purely subjective “feeling”. Trains (and boats, trucks, and planes as well) were, are, and will always be basically a commercial venture. The emotion that we feel is mostly nostalgia for a time that we perceive as events that we experienced in a positive way (I am old enough to remember the big GTW steamers rolling past my house when I was a kid). I don’t think that means that those times were any better than they are now, though (I love to look at old cars, but I like to drive new cars!). I don’t remember my wife’s granddad waxing nostalgic about the romance of the road (he was a conductor on the B&O out of Garrett, In.). He seemed more interested in how the union could help improve his work schedule and make sure that his pension was going to be there when he retired. As far as ever “going back” to the “good old days”, I’ll paraphrase “you can never go home again!”.
Gerry S.
PS. I love the song, but IMHO John Prine’s cover is definitive!
John W. … You deserve an A +++ for writing creative, thought provoking questions.
I recall growing up in the 40’s and 50’s, and our family traveled extensively by train. Back then, each railroad seemed to have its own personality. I think railroading did have a mystique.
As for the City of New Orleans train, I did not ride on that train. Our family however, did ride the City of Miami to Florida which was via IC and some connecting lines. I do like the song, however, because it somehow captures the spirit of a intercity rail travel in the streamliner era.
You asked “What was the Raiload’s greatest era?” … Oh, John … you’ll get a different answer from each person you ask. Personally, I like the 1950’s because the USA had so many great passenger trains. I was fortunate to have experienced riding in many of those great trains. In addition, I lived next the CB&Q mainline near Chicago when the streamliner era was at its best. The Zephyrs looked like they were flying low to the ground.
I have traveled a little on Amtrak, but not much. Passenger trains will never be the same. About half of my career was with a freight railroad. I liked the work, but it was a job and not a hobby.
I see numerous fine layouts here in the forum, in MR magazine, and elsewhere. I think many of them do a great job of capturing the personality and mystique of the prototype while at the same time creating a their own character. … Just one more reason why this is the World’s Greatest Hobby.
Thanks! BTW, here’s that $10 bucks I owe ya… [(-D]
That is exactly my aim and why I call it “Philosophy Friday” – there is no right or wrong answer. I just want to find out what people think about things and listen to their stories. There are so many folks here from different generations and backgrounds that there is a bound to be a wide diversity of opinion and experiences to share.
Thanks again, very much, for sharing yours-- and to everyone who has chipped-in and shared their thoughts! All of y’all are terrific and your comments are great! Keep 'em coming!
