I have been reading a bit about the use of signaling, both on real railroads and on model railroads. In the real world, signaling is generally meant to keep trains from running into each other. However, in the model world, signaling is often largely ornamental, or else used to indicate “blocks” that have power routed to them or not, or sometimes used to display the status of turnouts. More recently, with the advent of DCC and affordable electronic control systems, some model railroaders implement systems that are designed to more closely mimic the real thing, although not necessarily to the same degree of control or display. Along with signaling, particularly of this latter type, is the need to determine where the trains actually are-- train detection. Again, with DCC and electronics, there are affordable circuits and such that make this a lot easier to do and within the budget of the typical hobbyist.
So my questions for today are:
Do you implement any kind of signaling on your layout? If so, is it “real” or just a static display, or else tied to your “DC” (power-routed) blocks, or perhaps indicating the status of your turnouts?
Or do you implement a more realistic form of signaling, with train detection, with the object of modeling some type of train control?
If either of the above, describe your signaling system to us_– pictures would be great if you got 'em!_ Tell us how you use it and how its integrated (or not) into your railroad.
Right now, all of my signals are simple turnout-position indicators, and I’ll probably continue to use them this way in the future. This one is an ancient signal bridge that’s now approaching a half-century in age. I did replace the bulbs after pulling it from storage, patching it up a bit and repainting it.
I thought about it a bit, and decided that what I’m doing is actually more in the “spirit” of signals. The whole idea of them is to help the engineer do a better job of running the train. Well, a complicated system of block occupancy detectors would be nice, and actually kind of neat to have, but I think it helps the engineer, me in this case, more to be able to tell turnout positions across the layout at a glance, particularly when I’m running at night with the room lights down.
Right now, I’ve got 3 sets of signals in the subways that report turnout position, and two sets aboveground for the same function. One of these is not particularly necessary, since it protects a small industrial siding, but I had a signal lying around and it was easy to connect to the accessory mount on the Peco turnout.
I’m interested right now in another signal bridge, and I hope to get some nice examples here.
I have a working ABS signal system(8 blocks) installed, but not all of the signals are install due to scenery work. Though I use JMRI/DCC, my system is an IR one that is independent of the track power.
My club is in the planning stages of this at the moment. Since we use a Digitrax DCC system, it sort of made sense for us to use Digitrax detection and signaling products.
Our plan is to use the BDL16 detection boards, SE8C signal driver boards, and a computer running JMRI. Since our layout was originally set up as blocked DC, the blocks are already there. Fortunately when the club went to DCC several years back, they kept the feeds from the dispatcher’s panel (where the PM42 block circuit breakers are mounted, along with all the turnout controls) individual, so that we could implement something like this later on without having to completely rewire everything again. Right now, we’ll only have to change a couple of blocks to get proper detection.
I can tell you, though…I’m not looking forward to wiring all those signals up! [:D]
Right now I have only one signal on my layout, I use Dallee current detectors and relays with circuits of my own design. The signal is fully functional and shows a different indication when the switch it is protecting is reverse. The signal is an Atlas G type double head signal N scale. I plan on having about 16 signals when I get around to finishing the layout. I will only put working signals in positions where the aspects can be seen and dummy’s where they can’t to save some money.
On my ‘end of the railroad’ module I have implemented a form of signaling that exactly duplicates that of my prototype! I have also electrically duplicated the local (mechanical) interlocking that goes with it.
The system is staff-and-ticket, with lower-quadrant semaphore signals operated from the zone panel which will eventually become part of the overall layout MZL system. The signals are actuated by rotary switches that mimic the location (on the panel track diagram) and indication of the (as yet uninstalled) signals on the layout.
If all signals are set to STOP, switch points may be thrown with wild abandon - but no signal can be cleared if the points are not correctly set for the desired route. Once a signal is cleared, the points for that route are locked, immobile until the signal is once more set to STOP. Furthermore, the distant (approach) signal allowing approach to the station complex cannot be cleared unless one of the two home signals has already been cleared.
And now, the joker in the deck! No home signal may be cleared unless the ‘ticket’ for the single-track between the ‘end of the line’ and the (currently virtual) preceding station has been inserted into the stereo jack meant to accept it. Likewise, no start signal may be cleared until the ‘ticket’ has been inserted into the preceding station’s receptacle and that station’s home and distant signal have been cleared. The ‘ticket’ is unique to that stretch of track, with an internal connection between two of the available three contacts. Inserting any other stereo plug has no effect. (The currently-used isolated stereo jack by the cassette dock will be removed, and the inter-station wiring will be installed, when the module makes its way to its final home and is integrated into the rest of the layout.)
I model one of the first RR signal-types on my layout: A ball signal. It’s a scratch-built 2-ball/2-light version (those commonly found in the New England area) and controls a spur, where it merges into the main. It’s manually operated by a signalman, who sits in a shanty in between the two tracks. I’ll try and post a picture of it later tonight. [Edit: Pictures added]
Ball signal
Signal shanty
The above are just initial prototypes I scratch-built a few years ago out of stock that I had on hand. I’m hoping to build “new and improved” versions of them at some later date.
So, John, you’re always asking others to post pics. When are you going to reciprocate?
On my layout the station master hands a stick to the conductor. When he gets to the next section he drops off the stick with the next stationmaster. Another train can come through taking the stick back to the first stationmaster. If you don’t have a stick, you wait on a siding.
Yes, signals are a very important item on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL. The signal system is fully intergrated into the cab control system (DC for those who don’t know me) and is also fully interlocked with all mainline turnouts.
Dectection is a combination of inductive current sensors, and IR sensors. Detection within Interlocking Limits actually prevents turnout operation, just like the prototype.
Most of the signals modeled are the Interlocking signals and their approach signals, since model railroads typically have many more interlockings per mile than real railroads, and model layouts seldom have long stretches that actually require simple block signals.
But, the design of the signal system does support block signaling and APS where needed, and, like the prototype, Interlocking signal aspects are an indication of both route selection and occupancy.
My system uses relays, just like the prototype in my time period. My system provides a simplified version of CTC and can provide full three color operation. BUT, I find that even on a fairly large layout, actually using every aspect is not necessary or practical, so some “yellow” indications are simply “skipped”.
The signal system, turnout control system and cab selection system are all fully intergrated with each other and provide central panel running or dispatching as well as allowing full wa
Our club layout is DCC and has computer dispatch, just like the real railroad. There are two signal styles used on today’s railroads. Speed and directional. Directional tells you where your going. I.E. “diverging route”. Where speed just tells you how fast you can get there. CSX uses speed, which is what I’m pushing on the club layout. Right now we’re just keeping is simple.red, yellow, and green.
Signal placing is still like the prototype.
Absolute signals
Intermediate signals. Which on CSX, the most restricting signal is a stop and proceed at “restricted speed”
This is just the icing when it comes to signals. There are a lot of book on signaling. It all goes back to what you want on your layout.
I have implemented a fully working signal system. Blocks are detected and turnout positions are detected. It is computer controlled via JMRI Panel Pro. I have an NCE Power Pro for locomotive control, and have set up a LocoNet for the signal system which uses the Digitrax BDL-168 and SE8C boards.
Here is a link to my SIMPLE web page for my MRR that has a few photos and links to other information and photos:
Since the Ma&Pa only used train order signals, that’s all I’m planning on and only if the stations I actually model had them. But they will probably be decorative since I’m not planning on a telegraph system or station agents.
Working signals are way way low on my to-do and priority lists. On my previous East Texas layouts, the quality level of my signals was the Bachmann $5 blister pack of non-working plastic signals. I did superdetail them beyond the out-of-the-blister-pack level by painting flat black on the back side of the targets so that the transparent-colored-plastic lens in the target was not visible from the back. My “good enough” level for signals was pretty undemanding.
I really enjoyed a time or two operating on David Barrows Cat Mountain and Santa Fe back in the late 80s or early 90s, running a train across the layout by signal indications and later, spending a couple hours “running” the whole railroad by dispatching from the CTC board. However, I never expected to have such a layout. I would have wanted an operating signalling system if I ever built my “dream layout” which woiuld have taken a 30 by 40 foot room in N scale.
I have given up on dreaming about that 30 by 40 foot room, and most but not all of the layout that would go with it. My layout under construction is the END of the line, the termination of Santa Fe’s Texas line on my version of Galveston Island. There is very little mainline- most train movements would be authorized by the Santa Fe yardmaster and the Port Terminal RR yardmaster.
There is ONE place I think I really need and I expect eventually to install signals- Absolute (VERY absolute!) signals at the lift bridge in the middle of the “2-mile long” causeway to the island.
I don’t have much room on my tiny HO layout for signals really {3.5 footx 5.1foot}. ANd blocks? well one loop is one block and the other loop is the other block. signals at teh crossover switches would be a good idea, but I havent gotten around to those thoughts yet. Thats why the shanty switch houses are there! LOL
WHen I get around to being able to buy a good sized MRR space that happens to have a house on top of it, And get to build a larger layout, I will put in some signals, but most likely just static for looks.
{I know one can get into signals that actually work on the layout with the trains, but I’d rather run the trains with static signals than spend time and money I don’t have to do real working signals}
For me, signalling falls in the “It sure would be nice, but…” category. I’m a lone wolf operator so it doesn’t have great value in controlling traffic ala the prototype. It’s one of the fine details that can easily be added at a later date, if and when I get the layout fully operational and scenicked.
Well, the Yuba River Sub has a signalling system (upper quadrant semaphore) that works, as long as I remember to use my index finger on the blades, LOL! They’re from Tomar, and they’re individually lit with 1.5 battery boxes (also from Tomar), and they look very cool on the layout.
But I’ve got to admit, they’re for show, only. I was actually thinking of originally installing the Tomar lower quadrant semaphores on the layout, a-la SP on their Coast and Siskyou lines, but I found out from looking at ‘historical’ photos, that I really liked the NP and Santa Fe upper’s better. Something about that blade sticking straight ‘up’ when the signal was green for “Go”–okay, I won’t go into it, LOL!
Seriously, I like signals. For me, it makes a model railroad look much more like the real thing. I’m sure that eventually I’ll get around to adding actual operation, but for now, it makes me feel a little more ‘authentic’.
BTW, I really like your photos, thanks for posting them!
I’ve mostly been doing “car clinic” for the past couple of months. I’ve done about a hundred or so now, mostly boxcars and hoppers. I’ve posted a number of pictures on my photo album, feel free to go see more if you’re interested.
The South Penn Moves Coal! (Well, someday… [:)])
Doing Car Clinic… ugh.
A last view of the temporary yard. As you can see, presently my signals are still non-functioning. One of my projects upcoming is to build new (working) heads for these. I obtained 15mm brass discs to use as targets. Still need to drill them and add the LED’s.
Originally (under DC), my signals indicated block power and turnout position…
My first signals represented modern construction and placement. Single masts placed outboard of each track:
When I backdated my layout, I replaced the modern signals with era appropriate ones, still using the same block/turnout indications:
After I switched to DCC, this system no longer worked. So currently, the layout is unsignaled, aside from a few dwarf signals indicating turnout position:
Currently, I’m undecided about how to signal layout. I do want to add some type of block detection, but don’t know if I’ll use a point detector, or a current detector.
You say you’re using an IR method to detect your trains-- is it a commercial circuit or something you devised yourself? Does it tie into your DCC system?
