Leslie RaganTravel poster for New York Central Railroad 1938
Remember back when you were a kid, anxiously awaiting your next issue of Model Railroader? And when it came you’d grab it up and rush off to dive deep within it’s pages and drool over the layouts in all the photo spreads and dream about the day when you could start building your own. You’d pore through each edition looking for tips and techniques, studying the “how to” articles and flipping through to the Trackside Photos-- when suddenly, there it would be-- the layout that always manages to capture your attention no matter how many times you’ve seen it-- there’s just something about it that draws you in and makes you stop and look… For some folks maybe it was John Allen’s floor-to-ceiling mountains, for others it might have been George Sellios’ fantastic Franklin and South Manchester. Or maybe Allen McCleland’s V&O did it for you-- but whichever one it was-- whenever a picture of it appeared in the hobby press, you just had to stop and take a look-- it was the signature scene.
A signature scene is some a portion of the layout that for some reason stands out from all the rest and makes you remember it, whatever it is. Generally it’s not comprised of the trains themselves, but rather some other scenic element of
On my first adult layout - HO 4x6, my version of MR’s Tidewater Central, Dec-Jan 1957-1958 - the signature scene was going to be the dock and the working bascule bridge across the channel. That never happened. Instead the signature scene became the small “yard” and engine facility I added on the opposite side with a ridge right behind it. The ridge gave the desired appearance of steep hillsides behind the harbor on one side, and framed the engine facility on the other. Sorry, no pics - this was built in the '70s and early '80s.
But it was the pictures in Model Railroader that inspired me - the Tidewater Central and Portage Hill & Communipaw project layotus. And Ben King’s photos of his layout (Timber City?) where scenery came before track.
My planned signature scene for my new layout is again a dockside scene - a Southern Oregon dog hole port where a sailing lumber schooner is being loaded with fresh-sawn Port Orford cedar and redwood for San Francisco. I’ve even dreamed of installing speakers for background sounds and a fog machine (with an ocean scent?) to generate the correct atmosphere.
This is a great topic, John. Entering the way back machine, to early 70’s, three modelers of that time were my modeling heroes. One of the first model rr books I purchased, was “SCENERY FOR MODEL RAILROADS”., by Bill McClanahan. His layout, the Texax & Rio Grande Western had this great mountain scene that was featured in the book. Linn Westcott also had a mountain scene on his Sunset Railway & Navigation Co. layout. And, of course, there was a spectacular scene of John Allen’s Gorre & Daphetid RR, featuring a huge mountain and numerous bridges. This was scenery that I could only dream about.
My guess is that these signature scenes were a combination of good planning and accidental.
My own signature scene would have to be the bridges over Hammer Creek. This scene took the most planning and I’m very happy about the way it turned out. DJ.
I guess my signature scene is my Red jacket Trestle. It’s certainly my favorite. If this layout ever meets the wrecking ball I will still keep that section. I’ve done more work on it since the pictures but you get the idea.
As often happens in this thread, terms are vaguely defined or redefined compared to how they are typically used (or were intended to be used).
LDE was originally intended to mean Layout Design Element: any segment of a real-life railroad recreated in the layout. (I wish Tony Koester had used the term “Prototype Design Element” instead in the beginning, because that’s what he meant. Now people call any layout scene, no matter how freelanced, an LDE.)
This could be especially memorable and atmospheric – or not. An LDE is not necessarily a building or a town, it could be a particular track arrangement out in the middle of nowhere. At least, that’s true if using the original definition from Model Railroad Planning.
Signature scenes are usually (often) defined as something that is specific to time and place depicted on the layout. Thus, signature scenes help communicate that era and locale. For example, on a layout of Southern California, a couple of citrus packing houses next to a small combination depot might be a signature scene for the 1950s or 1960s. A plastic pellet distribution facility next to a boarded-up depot or an “Amshack” might be a signature scene for a modern era.
The term “signature scene” isn’t usually necessarily taken to mean “flashy, showy, favorite, or memorable” as this thread seems to suggest. It’s specific for a place and time, but may be very typical in appearance. Doug Gurin and the Layout Design SIG helped popularize the idea of signature scenes used to commu
I set out to create a signature scene. A bridge over a body of water, with vertical rock walls. I added a boat model, a waterside bar in the background, a team of painters on the bridge and even a mermaid. I waited through years of modeling other parts of my layout until I felt that I’d mastered the techniques I needed. I decided on the more labor-intensive Bragdon Foam for my rocks, because they added that extra level above Hydrocal castings. The scene began to take shape, and it came out pretty well.
Before I poured the water of Moose Bay, though, I decided it would be a good idea to do a small pond, since Envirotex was a new medium for me. So I threw together a small arch bridge with a road over it, and a tiny pond only a few inches across. Without planning, I ended up with my real signature scene.
It’s like falling in love, I guess. Sometimes it just happens.
Hmmm… in looking back over my post, I can’t find the part where I said anything about “flashy or showy”…
However, language is living and dynamic, and absent a formal definition for the term “signature scene” (and BTW, there doesn’t appear to be one, check for yourself: Google Search: “Signature Scene” Definition) I can only go by the general, vernacular usage, which near as I can tell is essentially “memorable” or, (my words) “most iconic” and “representative of the subject”. That also appears to be how it’s been used for decades in the hobby press, and the various books on Model Railroading-- even Tony Koester himself, seems to use it that way in his books. (Having never met the man personally, I can’t say what his actual personal definition is.)
Moreover, Tony is as much a “proto-lancer” as anybody (in fact, I would almost say “free-lancer” but I don’t want to give anybody a coronary this early into the Father’s Day weekend). He carefully picks and chooses which details he will model and which he will not, and when and where it serves his purpose. Nor, I note, does he have any compunctions whatsoever in bending the truth to fit his situation or desires, whenever the mood strikes him. He says (does) as much in his books and columns all the time.
For myself, I don’t go out and intentionally build one scene that I want to represent a model railroad that I am building. My desire is to build a good looking model railroad. All of it, in all places.
To me, model railroad scenery is built one scene at a time, and not by using a big brush that blankets everything. While building a model railroad, there are places that require special attention to make the scenery in that area work, hence, it becomes a scene. It may be because something needs to be hidden, or there is too much open space and it needs to be filled. Sometimes things just happen and a scene is developed that looks better than was planned by adding some detail elements. Sometimes it is the camera angle that brings the scene to life when it was not particularly designed as a primary scene.
The photo in the following link was a scene that was not particularly a signature scene when I built it, but because of the camera angle it became a really good scene. If I had known just how good it was going to turn out, I would have done something to correct the way the gas pumps were leaning. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2249036780104961028vtjjtP
Having talked with Tony quite a few times about his layout (and layout design in general), I’m not sure that he would agree with your definition of his modeling approach, but you’re welcome to your opinion.
For my part, I don’t mean to come across grumpy (even when I am). I do recognize that it’s just hopelessly old-fashioned to believe that if terms are going to be used, some care should be taken with them so that they don’t become meaningless through over-application. LDE is well on its way to that fate, which is unfortunate because there is an important concept behind the term – that understanding and applying specific elements of the prototype can make a layout better.
Since this thread is more of a “favorite scenes” show-and-tell (in itself, not a bad thing) and not a discussion of LDEs and how they might differ from “favorite scenes” (as was asked specifically in the original post), I’ll bow out.
Personally, I have a lot of fun with trains. But I do find the hobby more engaging when approached thoughtfully. If that makes me “full of myself” by a forum definition, that’s a shame.
I guess in the sense that has been pointed out earlier my trestle is not a signature scene. You will not instantly recognize my modeling style, era, or location just by seeing the trestle. I don’t think you will be able to tell those things by looking at a passing siding either. The only people’s layouts I could take one look at and recognize are Bob Grech and George Sellios. I think it’s because of their style more than a signature scene though. I’ll call my trestle my favorite scene instead.
This post wasn’t originally about LDE’s but I’d be delighted if you (and anybody) wants to talk about them. You’re always welcome in my threads Byron-- always, and I would be both thr
I am attempting to modeling early steam logging in Northern CA and my sawmill and related support structures are the heart of my logging operations both from my narrow gauge woods operations in to my standard gauge lumber finished products going out ( SP)
Until the Techachapi Loop is completed on the La Mesa MR Club at the San Diego Model RR Museum. the Tachachapi Pass is my all time favorite model rr Signature scene
IMO signiture scenes usually don’t just happen. They are well planned out before hand.
Most defineatly I think that signature scenes register something that is deep within us and that we, like an artist, artisan or craftsman, are trying to represent.
IMO , I think that a LDE in general does not represent a signature scene but one of these elements usually becomes one by default.
Except for the masters like John Allen where the entire RR IS the signature scene a single scene usually becomes the memory of mrr’s I have seen in my travels in the US and around the world.
Yes, and I have posted it so many times, people are probably tired of it. The two-mile long causeway to the Island Seaport (my version of the in .)
FUTURE signature scene not yet built: passenger station in ground floor of multi-story railroad office building, with view across to long row of cargo sheds, superstructures and masts of ships visible over the shed roofs. (computer rendering)
I couldn’t agree more. The idea of “representing” the layout is one that may need further exploration. My tranquil water scenes above don’t represent my layout. For that, I’d select this scene:
There’s Moose Bay in a nutshell, a small urban environment, 2, 3 and 4 story buildings. Traffic lights, the flashing HOTEL sign and, in this case, the trains running behind the scene. When I began Moose Bay, this was the impression I wanted to convey.
But as my signature scenes, I selected the ones which feature the scenery, since I’ve discovered that I’m primarily a Builder, and primarily a scenery guy. So, while the layout’s signature scene might be the fat guy crossing the street, my personal scene is the swans, where I think I did my best work.
So now, what? I don’t think we need to think of our signature scenes as places cast in stone. In fact, looking back, it’s been a few years since each of my photos was taken. I’m bui
I actually designed a signature scene into my layout. When I was developing my track plan, I envisioned curved, concentric trestles as a focal point. It took a lot of sketching and geometry, but I pulled it off:
The trestles are actually part of the helix that carries the track to the terrace on the back half of the layout. This makes the rear half of the layout 6" higher than the front half, thus increasing the visibility of that area (kind of like the elevated rear half of the stage that you often see at rock concerts). The other portion of the helix is hidden inside of tunnels.
Another signature piece on my layout is the curved truss bridge depicted in the first shot. It was necessary in order to make the rest of the track plan fit to the trestles.
As far as signature scenes on other layouts, the dock scene on the Gorre and Daphetid is one that really sets John Allen’s layout apart, as well as all of the bridges.
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