Philosophy Friday - The Typical Model Railroad

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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“The Typical Model Railroad”

Happy Thanksgiving everybody! Today is “Black Friday”. Shoulda called it “Traffic Jam Friday” if you ask me. The day when smart people sit home and shake their heads at all the masochistic folks venturing out to the malls. I was driving home from Strasburg PA today and every shopping outlet I saw from Pennsylvania to Virginia was jam-packed full of cars and people.

On the way home I was thinking about what people model, and wondering if there is such a thing as a “typical” model railroad-- or an “archetypal” model railroad. Do you think maybe that for us model railroader types there are “universal elements”, aside from the trains, that draws us into modeling and creating miniature worlds? It seems that many layouts are centered around mountains and mining, or else cities and industrial districts. Is this simply because that’s where the trains are and thus what people choose to model? If so, where are all the granger layouts? I know that steel mills are often selected as interesting things to model, whether independently or else as a portion of a mountain and mining type layout. I’m sure there are other themes that could be selected. An auto plant, for instance, would have a lot of operating potential. Perhaps the cattle and meat-packing industry might too.

My Questions For Today:

– What do you think? Is there such a thing as a “typical” model railroad, or perhaps a small continuum of things / themes that tend to get modeled more than others?

– What potentially interesting themes do you think get overlooked or under-represented on layouts?

– Is there any sort of “far out” (difficult / outlandish, etc.) but interesting theme you can think of that would be interesting to model?

As usual, I’m looking forward to yo

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–I don’t think there is a “typical” MRR. If there was, they’d almost all have to be exactly alike. COnsider this: SOme will model mines, some will model cities, some seaside docks for unloading containers-all different as you mentioned. But also consider this: is there a “typical” real RR? No, they are all somewhat unique to their customer needs, industries served and terrain they have to deal with, even among similar RR servings { two different RR’S or subs serving coal mines for example may not be “typical” to each other}.

– I would have to ponder this, but I am sure there are oddities among the real RR’s that are under-represented and just plain not interesting to modelers.

–I was gonna say a modern deforestation layout {as opposed to those who spend hours FORESTING their layouts hillsides} but many will model logging camps of yore and today they use helicopters and trucks to get trees out of forests and to the lumber mills, by-passing trains altogether. Trains only seem to come into the picture in transporting the finished mill products to places that distribute to Co.s like HD and Lowes.

Naturally, something like AREA 54 or an alien landing near a RR yard could be interesting and unique to model! A dinosaur dig archeaological site could be interesting RR trackside scenery too!

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The most typical “model railroads” are those that model a part of the world as we wish it were, and those that try to recreate the magic of toy trains of our youth.

In our imaginations, and in our hobbies, life tends to be much more dramatic than the sameness of everyday real life. So our scenery tends to far more dramatic than the stuff of our daily existence, and our trains more colorful and varied. Even if we have a prototype operations focus, we allow events on our models to much more fast-moving than in real life scaled up.

In the second case, we often see sound and smoke and operational lighting as important components of our models - even though none of these are all that realistic in the model version. I get a chuckle from those that assume that automatic reversing lights are the norm on prototype locomotives, or that marker lights, class lights, and headlights were routinely used during daylight hours by the prototype in the eras most of us model.

Of course, these are just my observations and opinions.

Fred W

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A cliche’ that gets repeated time an time again is a coal mine on a transistion era model railroad.

Give it a break. Instead of putting a coal mine where it doesn’t fit, model any one of the 1000 other industries that used coal. Instead of spotting empties and pulling loads, spot loads and pull empties. Same cars, same traffic, more believeable industry mix.

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The interesting theme that gets overlooked on so many levels is the pre-WW1 layout.

It is a time when railroads were the only major overland transportation means. The tonnage moved was huge. For example in 1900 the Reading moved the SAME tonnage of coal it moved in 1950, but it did it in 25-40 ton cars instead of 50-70 ton cars.

Engines were smaller, cars were smaller, trains were smaller. All ideal for the home layout. There were no unit trains, everything was on a carload basis so the amount of switching and car handling (play value) was maximized. The modern modeler tries to model a unit grain train with 2 SD40’s and 10 covered hoppers. I can have a “big” consolidation and “huge” 20 car train in the same space, an equivalent 10 car train in half the room.

The major mega roads hadn’t happened so there was a huge variety of road names. It is extremely easy to freelance because while imagining a 100 mile long railroad is tough to justify now, it was very common in that era.

The hard part is that the major manufacturers abandoned the era. There are dozens of resin cars in the era, but only Roundhouse makes plastic cars and only a 36 ft boxcar and reefer (which were actually not the most common cars in 1900). No new plastic wood framed car has been produced in about 40 years.

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Other than track, trucks and couplers, hardly anything is a “requirement” for a model railroad. I suppose there are some highly desirable elements, but they don’t always belong there. I think turntables and roundhouses fall into that category. (I have one of each.) A bridge over a body of water, or a bridge over a lower-level track, seem to be common because they’re just interesting. (Check. Check.) A lot of modelers like mountains. I have a few rock faces and hills, but nothing I’d call a mountain.

I’ve got a very small-scale coal operation, a single-pen stockyard, a 1-siding brewery and an icing platform for reefers. All of this, plus a few urban streets, fits in the original 5x12 foot Phase 1 section of my layout. Below all of this is my more unique modeling effort, the subway system.

While thinking of what’s going on now with Phase 2, I came up with what may be the most common element of them all - a passenger station. Even though freight seems to be the “preferred” type of rail line, and many of us don’t have passenger operations at all, very often there will be a station anyway, even if it’s nothing more than a place where the trains go by. Counting the one under construction, I have 6 stations, plus another planned for Phase 3.

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I’d have to say late steam to early transition … for now anyway. I think this is because a lot of the older modellers are re-creating their childhood, whereas the younger modellers (myself included) are trying to bring part of the “golden age” of rail travel back (or we just like steam [:D]).

I think the “open” land of the prairies, etc. There are very few layouts (that I’ve seen) that are dedicated to watching trains simply roll through the scenery. the vast majority of layouts are towns/cities or some form of other industry (coal mine) . sure there are in-between areas, but they’re generally nothing more the separation between towns…

not sure on this one – i think a lot of things like this have been done (dinosaurs, aliens, etc)

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The “typical’ model railroad is about as easy to pin down as the “typical high school girl” (somewhere between 4’6” and 6’4", a 4.0 ‘passing with peers’ student who spends out-of-school time being a couch potato national team/potential Olympian gymnast volleyball player.) There ain’t no such animal once the modeler advances beyond the ‘build sectional track plan #??? out of the book’ phase and begins to try to model what the real world offers.

The one thing that is under-represented on model railroads that is typical of prototype railroads is under-represented because it’s boring. I refer to the miles and miles of miles and miles with nothing more interesting than the occasional signal. Extensive double tracking has eliminated passing sidings, and we, as modelers, have no way of simulating the delicate throttle handling required when operating over the subtle humps and hollows of prototype flatland railroading.

If someone wants a challenge they could try modeling the rail operations that underpinned the construction of the Boulder (now renamed Hoover) Dam. Grades, hairpin curves, BIG tunnels (they had to clear sections of penstock pipe, not just rolling stock,) BIG elevation changes, incredible traffic density… And all in a dessicated desert, with not a tree in sight.

Aside to Brother Husman. When somebody who doesn’t know how track was arranged at a coal mine plunks the unmodified Walthers kit across three dead end spurs, that is a cliche. Somebody who is trying to reproduce the spirit, if not the letter, of mines where he left footprints in the dust… I was a ‘minefan’ during the late 1950s - in Japan, where the transition era extended from the 50s to the 70s. I hope my modeling will accurately capture the feeling of the big colliery at Shime - including all those ancillary structures, essential to the operation, that I’ve never seen on anyone’s layout. And then there’s that '3 co

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The typical model railroad is a 4x8 sheet of plywood on some sort of legs 30-36" high. It is HO scale and has Atlas track, station, signal tower, and lumber yard. It uses cork road bed and is DC. Rolling stock is an eclectic mix spanning 1920 to present. Engines include two steam locomotives and a diesel. It is the modeler’s first layout.

The most interesting theme not well represented is the 1830’s when the railroads got started in the U.S. Bachmann has some sets for this period, but I have never seen any layouts for this time frame.

One difficult theme would be modeling the Erie when it was 6’ gauge.

Enjoy

Paul

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I think there are definitely some elements of model railroading that are pretty typical… I would guess that a majority of layouts include some sort of continuous running, either by default or by design. (We do like running our laps, don’t we?)

I’d guess also that the majority of layouts are relatively small… 4x8 for HO, 3’ hollow core door for N scalers on the low end, to a modest room size, maybe 9x12. Let’s face it, real estate is still pretty difficult to obtain for a “non-essential” activity like model railroading…

And the one thing that probably bonds most of us together, I bet the vast majority of layouts are incomplete!

Lee

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I would have to agree with the two preceding posters that if the question is answered by the reality of the situation, rather than a more conceptual one, then the “typical” layout of hobbyists is the 4x8. It will include a central town and in a least one corner, a mountain with some sort of tunnel. I read somewhere that about 75% of the scale model railroads ever built fall into this general category, making the more complex, highly detailed and realistic kind that typically come to mind in discussions such as this, relatively scarce by comparison.

There are numerous industries that have company owned railroads on their properties, but as unique as these often might be, they are rarely modeled. It would seem that most hobbyists shy away from building “isolated” railroads, being more desirous of depicting a small portion of a much larger transportation system.

When it comes to some “far out” or unique, but still interesting railroad themes, ones that would certainly be an interesting challenge to the truly thoughtful, clever and highly creative hobbyist, as well as being up-to-date, or even beyond, would be something like modeling the NASA Railroad at the Kennedy Space Center. Similarly, how about one for a moonbase (as was proposed tongue-in-cheek by MR many years ago), or even on Mars (like the one in Total Recall)? In these latter instances, you could be your own “futurist” and no one could say that your layout wasn’t prototypical…simply because there are no prototypes for these situations as yet!

CNJ831

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I think that the “classic” roundy-rounder with a passing siding and a few industry spurs on a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood is your typical model railroad, and there is nothing wrong with that. Not all of us have the means to build a basement sized empire and the fun in model railroading is not related to the size of a layout. Most layouts probably follow a well-known road, such as UP, BNSF, NS, because that´s what people can see nowadays and it gives the layout a flavor of being a part of a bigger system.

There are quite a few themes which are not very well represented in the model railroading community, the first one being layouts set in the early era of railroading. This is certainly due to a lack of well running equipment and not due to lack of interest. The second theme is what a call the “dingy down-town” urban railroading. OK, there is Lance Mindheim´s Miami themed layout, but most layouts are set in a rural atmosphere, isn´t that sweet, oh look, the little cows… Again, there is nothing wrong with that. A third theme which we hardly see, is a model of single purpose railroads, although they can be quite interesting in terms of operation and equipment. I still have yet to see a model of the Mt. Washington Railway or a mountain tramway like the Yule Marble line in Colorado.

A theme that I have been planning for quite some time is a cog railroad in the mountains. Bemo offers a selection of locos and cars for a Swiss narrow gauge based theme, but other than that, there is nothing in the market. Oh, yes, there are a few hand-built steam locos of Swiss prototype available, but with prices exceeding the $ 2,000 mark, they are way out of reach. Fleischmann of Germany offers a fantasy 2-6-0 tank loco, but it is too far away from anything real. So this is at theme I will not be able to realize.

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Mmmm - early railroading. Say the Civil War. Bernie Kempinski is currently doing a really nice Civil War era layout of union military railroad from the peninsula campaign in Virginia. Thom Radice has an excellent confederate layout from Atlanta during the civil war, with among other things an engine house with the turntable inside the engine house and hospital trains. Youtube video of a layout visit by someone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B5A-AgRGxU

Within-plant switching. There was an interesting H0 scale 4x8 foot layout in MR a while back switching a steel plant. No attempt to make a loop of track, but interesting within-plant switching. It was called Magarac steel (named for a Pennsylvania legend - a fictional steel worker called Joe Magarac). Picture from layout here: http://photos.modelrails.net/showpic/?photo=2008020816090720733.jpg

Switching in a larger passenger station - swapping motive power, handling express good, mail, swapping observation cars, restaurants and sleepers - Chuck Hitchcock had Argentine passenger station on a previous Santa Fe layout he had. It’s operation is described in Tony Koester’s “Realistic Model Railroad Operations” - link to google books: http://books.google.no/books?id=orbWT5ZnLOcC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32

Anyways - there are lots and lots of things that can be modeled in interesting ways :slight_smile:

Smile,
Stein

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As for typical, I’d say it’s a toss up between the ol 4x8, wether starter layout from an Atlas plan or well finished masterpiece like the G+D or, the 3 foot circle under the Christmas tree, either HO or O with fake snow and Dickens village structures. Nothing wrong with either, they serve their purpose well when done nicely.

Underepresented, probably large single industry layouts like the American Viscose plant featured in MR a couple years ago. Don’t think this rules out mainline running though since something of justifyable size would likely include a scale mile of mainline track next to it wich would probably run into staging unless you have LOTS of room.

Outlandish and difficult? Another “single industry”, Penn Station. The visible layout would be huge even in Z, staging would be monsterous and cantenary would almost be a requirement to prevent shorts. Oh my goodness can you imagine trying to operate it?

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Which Penn Station are you talking about? If you speak of the one in NY then I have the catenary drawings for that yard showing every guy wire, pole and clamp in exacting detail to include manufacturer part numbers for the components.

I agree with most of the posters here, the common railroad is HO scale, 4x8 with a town, a tunnel and usualy steam/diesel transition era.

Under represented is clearly the dense urban railroads such as Penn Coach yard at 30th St in Philly with the CSX elevated cut through, or Sunnyside yard through Brooklyn to the Hellgate, or CSX downtown Birmingham at the Triangle. Too many cows and barns on model railroads.

Unusual would be the very early stages of railroading back when it was wood track. I’d like to see a layout like that, it would be realitively easy to do in G scale with battery operated locos and cedar rails.

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Typical is for me,If I see my layout,I can think to America. I see a little town with station,a branch line to a coal mine,I see watertower,which we never seen here in germany,I see a yard(it´s 21ft long),okay,my layout is on the loft,beside the walls 2ft low and app.39x18x42ft around,with 2 tables with12x7ft.

I have a big lumber yard, rounhouse and all the things,which have the real railroad.But typically is for me the “American Spirit”,I will say,the rolling stock,the locomotives,the sound…

Typical is(in future),if all the locomotives have their own really rolling stock from their era-but this is a"money problem"…

Typical is also,if my friend and me,we take an OP-session,if we had time together-we both have family and a job and spare time to the hobby.

Now we will construct a new layout in the basement,the scafold is ready,shortly we will beginn…:wink:

Typical is a G-scale track circle around the christmas tree with LGB-0-4-0 and some christmas cars.

That´s are my thoughts about typical model railroading,oh,I must end,a train is coming into the yard…

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To typical: Selective compression, the act of trying to put too much stuff in a small space. Too many layouts trying to jam engine service tracks and storage, along with a station in a small space, the 4x8, with to many industries on a single track.

A couple of earlier posters said it best, modeling the twenties through the forties gives you more trains and railroads ran through almost every town. In central upstate New York alone there were miles of Erie, O&W, DL&W, LV and NYC lines.

Not so typical: single industry lines, tourist railroads(Strasburg and Essex) come to mind, single ended branch lines with mixed trains, and endless miles of rural nothingness.mike h.

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Hah! I’d love to see it done, I can;t even get the club to use the 10 track Terminal we have for basing trains OUT of during Operations, let alone splitting the cars for the Commisary, the REA track, and switching out express reefers.

Interesting and Outlandish theme: At one time the Madison Incline ran coal trains of 5-7 cars a pass up a 6% grade to feed the mental hostpital’s powerplant. However, the IKE plant at the bottom of the Hill is geting coal frim barges. I wanna take a cue from IPL’s old trick, and use a sadly inferior method of hauling coal so IKE can keep the barge company competitive.

Yep, two SD7s on the souh end of a 50 car coal train walking is way down a 6% grade for a half mile or so with two SD70s/etc. on the NORTH end trying to keep the train from running downhill. Yes, I know I’m evil, but can you think of anything more difficult in coal-hauling?

On the topic of coal in transition: Yeah, it is a theme that gets play out excessively, but The prolem with s

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What do you think? Is there such a thing as a “typical” model railroad, or perhaps a small continuum of things / themes that tend to get modeled more than others?

All layouts have one thing in common-locomotives,cars track and structures and that’s where it stops since each layout is individually planed by its builder based on their given and druthers…

I have notice the majority of the 4x8’ layouts I seen shared 2 things in common…A short tunnel and ridiculously steep grades.

What potentially interesting themes do you think get overlooked or under-represented on layouts?

Any theme that has not based on believability.

As a example. A gorgeous water fall that has a pool without a run off…In other word s millions of gallons of water is supposedly falling over that fall but,other then a small pond where’s it going?

As far as “under-represented” there are many.

All to sadly believability is overlooked.

Another example is a snow scene…We see pristine snow along the edge of the road after its been plowed and salted yet the snow along the edge is still nice and pristine when it should be dirty from the slush passing vehicles throw as they pass after the remaining snow melted from the salting.

Is there any sort of “far out” (difficult / outlandish, etc.) but interesting theme you can think of that would be interesting to model?

I dunno…Maybe a Martian Railroad such as the Mars Central? [:O]

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I am often late but this weekend, later than “typical” for me.

– What potentially interesting themes do you think get overlooked or under-represented on layouts?

I have built a few models to try out what I think of as overlooked themes…

On-base trackage at a World War II era U S Navy blimp base as a consignee of helium cars.

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/554/LTAwtower.JPG

An N scale model of a Lionel layout.

http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/548/LatBarn.JPG

(The prototype barn outside actually housed anm HO layout…)

A wood-preservation treating plan