If you ask around, most model railroaders will agree that making sure the track and trains are in tip-top working order is the most important aspect of any layout. Sure, the scenery is nice, but if the trains don’t work and won’t stay on the track, it’s pretty much a bust. So I’m asking, what do you think is the best practice for getting trains and track in good order? And I’m especially interested in your thoughts about the wheels. Some people prefer metal wheels-- they say plastic wheels are dirt magnets-- while others seem to think that it really doesn’t matter. What do you think? What is your opinion on the matter? What are the best practices for a smooth running layout, and what should you do about the wheels?
I have no real basis for comparison because plastic trucks and wheels generally get replaced in short order. My preference is for ribbed back, code 88 wheels running in sprung trucks. And I like to weight cars to NMRA RP.
Since I model an earlier era, the thinner wheels are more visible from the car ends. Small layouts with short trains mean the weight has little impact on my locomotives. But the extra weight makes the springs in the trucks work better, and the coupling smoother at switching speeds.
just my non-binding opinions
Fred W
…modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it’s always 1900…
The subject of metal wheels vs. plastic, sintered vs. turned, etc., has been pretty well hashed out over the last 50 years or so. Personally I prefer the code 88 (“semi-scale”) wheels. I have converted my rolling stock in turn from plastic to Kadee sintered, to Proto 2K, and finally to Reboxx turned metal wheels riding in sprung and equalized metal trucks. I like their appearance, performance, and even their sound. They seem to stay cleaner, as well, though that’s a fairly minor issue with me.
The biggest issue with these wheels is the unrealistic gap between the sideframes and the wheels. I would love to see sprung metal trucks with sideframes spaced 0.035" narrower than the current standard. I’d buy a bunch! In the meantime, I’ll paint the sideframes black and make them disappear, and enjoy the gleaming narrower treads on the semi-scale wheels.
As to what makes for a smooth-running layout - like in real estate (location, location, location) it’s track, track, track. Oh, and wheels, and electrical, and carpentry… In short, work. And the absence of spectators. [:)]
I had a “lightbulb” moment when it occurred to me to think of my trackwork in scale. In the 1:1 world 1/32 of an inch isn’t much, but 1/32 of an inch represents about 3 1/2 inches in HO scale. An undulation or gap of such small dimension will wreak havoc on an HO scale railroad. Really, our accuracy must be in the neighborhood of 1/87" or less deviation from perfection (one scale inch) if we are not to insult the physics that make railroads possible.
A second lightbulb came on when I learned about the issue of centering wheels on axles. As shown in the illustration below, wheels can be in-gauge but off center. This can make a truck sort of “crabwalk” down the rails and it will be more prone to derail.
Regarding the metal/plastic debate, I don’t find any differences in performance or dirt. I do think that car weight distribution is important (prototype railraders prefer to have most of the weight located above the trucks, and I like this approach. The cars run nicely and it leaves the center space open, so I can detail the interior of my open-doored box cars.
By the way, in past posts I’ve mentioned that my most recent derailment occurred in 2005. That streak has ended. When I relocated my layout to my new house, a bunch of gremlins showed up and I’ve been patiently fixing track glitches since September. I attribute the problems to minor flexing that resulted from repositioning the benchwork. It’s doing well now, so I expect to begin a new on-the-rails streak soon.
I think the best practice for getting a great running layout is to take your time. Build good sturdy benchwork and lay GOOD quality track and turnouts. Make sure all your joints are soldered and you have feeder wires running every 4 feet. Then you just run it for 6 months, DON’T lay any ballast or add scenery until you are 100% positive that you don’t have any track issues. Spend that time building buildings or just run trains and drink some beers.
As for getting the rolling stock in good working order I start off with adding steel wheels(IT MATTERS!!!) if they don’t already have them and add Kadee #5 couplers. Even though the #5’s are a little big they are more forgiving. I leave the trip pins on too and adjust them if needed. Nothing goes on my layout until that is done. I check coupler heights and add weight if I think the car needs it. As for the loco’s I always break them in before adding a decoder. I run them in both directions for around an hour at varying speeds. This is also a good way to make sure you don’t have a dud before you rip it apart to add a decoder. I only use Digitrax decoders and have NEVER burnt one up. I basically only buy higher end loco’s. Kato, Atlas, Proto2000, Intermountain and Athearn Genesis. For the most part these loco’s are perfect right out of the box and offer the best detail available. I stay away from the cheap stuff like Tyco and older Bachmann etc because it doesn’t appeal to me and I have no interest in trying to make a poor running loco better.
The reason I prefer steel wheels is because I prefer to keep everything the same. I don’t know if plastic are dirt magnets or not. I think the majority of the black crap on rails is because of the arcing between the steel wheels and the track. Who knows, maybe plastic is better. To red
When I first got into HO scale model railroading 8 years ago, two guys that owned and operated my LHS took me under their wing and taught me all of the basics of the hobby.
One thing that they stressed was the “need” to replace all plastic wheels with metal, wheels on all rolling stock, both freight cars and passenger cars. They recommended Intermountain metal wheel sets, so they is all that I ever use, 33 inch wheels on freight cars and 36 inch wheels on passenger cars.
As far as out of gauge wheels are concerned, I have rarely, if ever, had such problems with the Intermountain metal wheel sets. So, I will continue to use them to the exclusion of everything else.
Mark me down as a metal wheel lover. I don’t care for plastic wheels.
I think the metal wheels sound more realistic going around and I agree the plastic wheels seem to attract things and schtuff I don’t want.
I have a few RR cars I haven’t gotten around to replacing with metal wheels, but will someday. Plastics may run a bit quieter, but I like the “clickety clack” of the metal wheels.
I also think I have fewer problems with the metal wheels negotiating things like turns and switches.
Just my opinion though.[2c] thats all my opinion is worth.
ROUND Wheels. Mark be down for round wheels. Wheels should be round. Flat wheels on trains are not a good thing. On the NYCT, inspectors are out ever night with calipers and such looking for flat spots. A flat spot that you might not see with the eye can be enough to condemn a wheel and bring the truck into the shop for truing.
FLAT wheels are particularly noticeable on commuter and subway equipment. Frequent stops can cause flat spots. FALL is the worst time of year for the commuter railroads and some of our subway lines. Leaves from the trees fall, they land on the tracks and are pressed by the wheels of the passing trains. They exude a slippery substance that causes the wheels to slide when the brakes are applied. Computerized equipment on the train detects the slide and releases the brakes, but this has other consequences such as over-run stations. And the wheels still get flat anyway.
The big eastern commuter railroads spend a lot of time and money keeping their wheels round, but you can round them only so many times before they are condemned for being to small for the train.The run trains with all sorts of foam and chemicals to combat the leaves and the residue they leave. The leaves are far worse than the ice.
Maybe your wheels do not get flat spots on them since they do not have real brakes on them either, but modelers can simulate this process with the accumulation of dirt on the wheels, and then you will have to take the trainset into the shop and true the wheels with a knife blade. And if you cut the wheel too deeply then you must condemn it and roll out a replacement.
I posed the question “which wheels were best” on this Forum 4 years ago and the majority agreed that Intermountain was the best pick. Soooo, I bought in bulk (much cheaper) and all layout freight cars have 33 inch, and passenger 36 inch in my postwar HO layout.
Now I don’t have personal knowledge that Intermountain are better than any other metal wheelsets, but I do know that they are a major improvement over plastic wheels.
On the plus side, they are more free rolling, have a nice postwar clickety clack to them, and they do not pickup or transfer dirt anywhere near what the plastic wheelsets do.
On the minus side, they ain’t cheap, and a derailment is often a short situation on my DCC layout.
Hi John! This is going to be a first for me posting on a “Philosophy Friday” [:D]
I agree with your comment - track, trains, locos, rolling stock, wheels, couplers (moving parts) have to be flawless otherwise the layout loses its appeal. As far as wheels, I can only speak for my own experiences.
Within the past year, I have made the switch to Intermountain 33" Metal Wheels. I can honestly say I have FAR FEWER derailments since I have installed metal wheels. If I do have a derailment, it’s usually something else other than a “plastic vs metal” problem [recently - loose piece of ballast on inside rail of turnout caused wheels to “ride high” or wheel out of gauge (this was an athearn stock metal wheel, not an intermountain)]. I also believe that metal wheels run and roll smoother, thus having less drag. Even though I have sound decoders, I also like the “clickety-clack” that metal wheels make as the train travels around the layout; a realistic sound that plastic wheels don’t provide.
I buy my wheels in bulk from my local hobby shop, a box of 100 is $65. That’s 65 cents each; $2.60 for a complete change out on one rolling stock. A small price to pay for smoother, less problematic operations (rail fanning and switching).
To me, there is less chance of a metal wheel being out of round, having a flat spot, getting an nick or burr (things I have experienced with plastic wheels) and the “pizza cutter” syndrome is far less prevalent with metal wheels.
Dirt pick-up? - Don’t know for sure. I keep my track and wheels cleaner than I used to. Not because of excessive dirt accumulation, but because I am more conscious of this now than years ago.
I do keep an older rolling stock car with plastic wheels on hand and I use this as my “test car” when laying track. If this “less than desirable” car with “not so good” wheels can roll over rail joints and through turnout
As a test I sat two new weighted hoppers on a grade of about 1.7%. one I had just installed metal wheels on the other had stock plastic wheels. The plastic wheeled one just sat there, the metal wheeled one rolled quickly down the grade. I repeated this several times. For me that’s enough to change out the wheels.
what do you think is the best practice for getting trains and track in good order?
Take your time laying track and make sure every joint is smooth-use the finger/eyeball test.Regardless if you’re using flex or snap track make sure the rail joiners are tight-tighten with needle nose pliers by gently squeezing the joiner against the rail.
About wheels…That subject as been beaten to death and still there is no clear answer which is better once one learns what that dirt is that gets on our track-its a bit disgusting once you know the truth…I’m not fully convince plastic wheels is evil.
What are the best practices for a smooth running layout, and what should you do about the wheels?
John,Its a very basic thing and one that is easily mastered.
Here’s my goof proof method.
1.Again take you time laying track and check often as you go.
2.Before any car is placed on the layout I checked the wheel gauge and coupler trip pin height and change out the wanna bes for KD #5 # 148 or the Walthers Protomax coupler.
The wheels are a personal choice so I have no real advice other then use the wheels of your choice.
If you think the above doesn’t work I can run my trains for 6-7 hours a day during the county fair and have zero derailments due to the smooth track work and my relentless passion for derailment free operation…
Side note:
Now,50% of my cars have metal wheels and I decided to convert my favorite cars with plastic wheels to metal wheels.
Why?
I do like the roll ability of metal wheels no more no less…
I have an odd data point on the plastic-vs-metal debate. I’ve got subways in tunnels. I built the tunnels to subway specs, not double-stack specs, so only the subway trains will run below ground. The rest of my locomotives and some rolling stock won’t fit. Since the subway trains and trolleys all have metal wheels, there are no plastic wheels underground.
But, I know it’s time to get out the CMX track cleaning car when the subways start stalling in the tunnels. For whatever reason, the tracks where I never run plastic wheels get dirty before the tracks above, where there is a mix.
I’ve got a box of Intermountain wheels. I’m slowly replacing the old plastic wheels. Sometimes, i have to replace the trucks, too, as the old ones, many with real springs, are loose and twist too easily.
I am slowly replacing all the plastic wheels with metal 33" beginning with the oldest cars first. I have noticed that plastic wheels wear and eventually get out of gauge - so the replacement program started. A year ago I went over every car and checked the wheel alignment, coupler height and weight - I was amazed how many were out one way or another. Also, whenever I have a car that starts to derail for now apparent reason, I pull it out of service and recheck everything. As to cleaning track, it has become part of just everyday maintenance. i think an ongoing maintenance schedule is necessary to keep everything in tip-top shape.
My experience is that good quality metal wheels make a big difference in how rolling stock performs. Machined wheels (ExactRail, Intermountain, newer Athearn) also seem to work better than cast (Kadee, Proto 2000). Even the best plastic wheels aren’t necessarily perfectly round, and over time they wear and start to acculmulate crud on the treads, a problem shared to a lesser extent with cast metal. My roster has 100% metal wheels, and I’m slowly transitioning to all machined.
I have been a metal wheel fan for many years. Many of the plastic wheels provided with kits or older RTR cars are really bad - out of gauge/warped/bad flanges. My current ‘standard’ is Intermountain bulk packs of wheels. But I have lots of cars with P2K wheels as well.
I still use ‘110’ wide wheel sets and the larger Kadee couplers - much more forgiving on the clubs Atlas code 100 trackage. I clean my home layout about twide/year with a CMX track cleaner.
After testing on the incline for rolling resistance, I noticed while making my scrap load that the plastic axles had a blunt end and the metal wheel/axle had almost a needle point. That probably accounts for part of the difference rolling resistances.
My vote is for metal wheels, and I have my own special wheel/truck combination I use on most rolling stock.
I use Intermountain wheel sets installed in Kadee sprung metal trucks on most of my equipment. I prefer sprung/equalized trucks and ai prefer metal for their extra weight - down low where it does the most good.
I do use several othe brands of sprung trucks and a very few rigid trucks to get the correct sideframes for some equipment. But the Kadee/Intermountain combo dominates 90% of my freight rolling stock.
I use only .110 width wheels and my track and turnouts are mostly Atlas code 83 with a few Walthers specialty pieces and a few hand layed special pieces.
I also only use Kadee orginal regular head couplers - no generics, no semi scale wheels or couplers.
The truck/wheel combination explained above provised a very free rolling and smooth tracking truck. More free rolling than most every rigid frame plastic truck I have been able to find to compare it to.
This has dramaticly improved pulling ability of locos.
