This week I was looking at a spectacular layout in a magazine, it was very nice. But almost immediately I noticed something about the layout that really made it stand out-- it was clean as a whistle! No weathering, no rust, no “litter”, no dirt, no nothing-- everything was clean and shiny, just spotless… except for the tunnel portals, they had the obligatory “smoke residue”, which of course being the only dirty things on the layout, made them stand out all the more.
I don’t have anything against the layout-- like I said it was gorgeous in every detail. Except it wasn’t dirty-- hadn’t been weathered. I don’t know if it is the modeler’s intention to weather it some day, or if he has an aversion to weathering, or is fastidiously neat and clean-- or what. The article didn’t go into any of that. But it got me thinking about it and so I’m putting the question to you–
So, My Questions For Today Are:
– Do you think a layout (and/or trains, buildings, etc-- the individual components) should be weathered, un-weathered, or some of both?
– Do you think they should be weathered before going on the layout, after going on the layout, or just whenever the mood strikes?
– Does an un-weathered layout stand out to you at all? Would you notice it if everything was pristine and neat?
As usual, I’m looking forward to reading your thoughts and opinions on the subject!
(And feel free to post any photos you think illustr
I have to go cook supper now to get to a seminar this evening, not time for my usual long-winded reply. Maybe later. My immediate thought-- my average model building work is so messy, it doesn’t need weathering. It is already pre-weathered by default, from my handling, etc, and from sitting around months while I am waiting for time to get back to the project.
I really UN-appreciated it when I built a model of a concrete grain elevator for a club layout and someone decided to weather it “generically” without my knowledge, with simulation of coal soot in places that had nothing to do with what collects on a grain elevator.
Like so much of model railroading, we make assumptions - often wrong - about the past based on the photographs of other eras or on the era in which we live.
To most of us today, very tidy and clean railroad yards and facilites with all the equipment shiny and polished is unfathomable. It just wouldn’t happen in today’s world. And by the way, didn’t coal and wood soot coat everything before infernal combustion?
Of course, photography before the 1930s was all black and white. Today, black and white is used to convey a mood of dreariness and even dirt - it’s a cultural norm. So our first reaction to the photos of Early Rail (WW1 and earlier) are that it was indeed a time when everything was covered in grime and soot.
But study photos carefully and you will see most everything was extremely well cared for by today’s standards. Trash and litter wasn’t allowed to blow around like today’s cities. The differences in packaging of goods may be a contributor, but also the attitudes and culture of yesteryear were very different.
Railroads repainted their passenger cars every few years in the 19th Century. And put a touchup coat of varnish every year in between. Soot on visible surfaces would be cleaned off on a regular basis - passenger cars were an advertisement to the public. Locomotives were run and cared for by a specific engineer for many years at a time. The cleanliness of a locomotive and the dress of an engineer were an indication of his professionalism and importance in a sought-after profession. And he was assigned a fireman and a wiper to assist him with the maintenance and operation. A similar situation existed for the caboose, conductors, and brakemen.
Paint on freight cars would be the major exception. Paints of the 19th Century bleached out in the sun more easily, and a car that didn’t get back to the home road for a couple of years would suffer. But again, railroads
I believe in weathering the layout and the equipment, but not all of the equipment. Example would be the passenger cars, most roads kept them very clean and didn’t let them get rundown looking like freight cars. I lightly weather the roofs of the passenger cars since that was one area that the car washers didn’t clean when they were run through them. I vary the weathering on cars from lightly to heavily soiled, plus throw in some rebuilds that are still fairly clean. My engines are mostly moderately weathered as well as my cabooses. I weathered all the building about the same level and yes I add pieces of trash and misc. junk such as broken ties, odd pieces of rail, garbage, scrap metal, etc. I learned the hard way in the military to pay attention to every detail. Virgin clean layouts are nice in a hobby shop but for me they are not realistic and why spend all the time and effort to build a world that doesn’t exist where everything is sparkling clean and fresh. That’s my opinion on the topic.
I am a firm promoter of making the models feel alive, and with that I mean to make them more real than life itself. That is exactly what Mr Sellios has made, and wich some people have a hard time grasping the concept of.
So, My Questions For Today Are:
– Do you think a layout (and/or trains, buildings, etc-- the individual components) should be weathered, un-weathered, or some of both?
I think that a model has to have some amount of weathering to be convincing to the eye. If even to just add some matte clear on it or even a simple sunbleached effect,
– Do you think they should be weathered before going on the layout, after going on the layout, or just whenever the mood strikes?
It doesn´t matter when they are weathered as it is sometimes necessary to adapt the model to the situation at hand. I have some models that I waited to weather just to see how much weathering to add to make it feel right.
– Does an un-weathered layout stand out to you at all? Would you notice it if everything was pristine and neat?
I think it stands out as an unfinished piece of work, just like a painting that hasn´t got to the finished state. To put it blunt: I think it is toylike…
Buildings and rolling stock should be weathered to varying degrees. As much as I hate to weather a brand new engine with a great paint job, the wheels and running gear should receive some weathering. I plan on applying weathering to the trucks and running gear of my GE 45 tonner and minor weathering to my home road box cars since they are new in 1979.
A lot of the weathering that’s applied to rolling stock should also be in tune with the period being modelled. If you’re modelling the depression or from 1960 to 1990, railroads were in dire straights and couldn’t afford to run rolling stock through the wash after every run. While cleanliness = good maintainance, the first cut to maintainance to be held off would be a cleaning.
Most buildings only get washed when it rains, so the age and the building material have something to do with the amount of weathering.
As far as before and after putting it on the layout, it depends on the scene. If it’s a crowded urban or industrial scene, do you really have a choice.
An unweathered layout really does stand out to me. I love going into a grungy and gritty neighborhood for pictures so that I can have references. For the most part, where there’s trains, there’s grit (unless you’re modelling a modern commuter line, then it must be pristine to attract riders.
I once visited the Franklin and South Manchester and It was his weathering that gavethe layout it’s lifeblood. While being gritty, it didn’t look like it was out of a Tim Burton movie.
Everything in real life weathers to some degree within a certain period of time. Therefore, any model or model RR that does not have any weathering seems toy like to me which is OK but not my model RR vision. I always weather as I am building.
As has been already said the era you model can have a big effect on the amount of weathering both on rolling stock, and buildings, etc.
I model the year 1925, a boom time in American History. Post war and pre Great Depression. American culture was not a “throw away” society as it is today. Not much in the way of bottles and cans, paper bags, plastic this and that around. Besides most everything was reused. Even during the depression most properties were kept neat and clean. They may be run down and in disrepair, but the piles of trash everywhere you look is not what was part of the normal way of life. A lot of photos you see were taken because something was not as usual and it made a good story or headline in the local paper… For instance there is an oft used photo of the NYC crossing in Canandaigua, NY in the mid 1930’s. Mud everywhere, piles of bricks near the streets, cars stuck in the mud which was the road, everything is a complete mess. That would be fine to model as a scene, but it was not the usual way the NYC crossing looked. The photo was taken as a news story during the time they were paving Main Street. Come back the next spring and you would see a cleaned up, neat and orderly area.
A friend of mine sent me some URLs of what it looked like in Hoboken, NJ in 1905 and 1910. You see some unusual things going on, construction and such, but generally quite neat and clean. There is one thing usually missing in the streets on models of that era that you can see very plainly in these photos. We find this along the roads around where I live today from time to time… (Mennonite and Amish nearby…[swg])
Well, I do sort of weather my cars and locomotives up to a point…
But nowhere near as good as some here do…still working on doing the pix as well…
But I did manage to find something of a treasure trove of sites that had really good imagery for me to work from in terms of what is seen in some places in certain times…
Note what happens when certain aging processes occur here…colour goes right off…
– Do you think a layout (and/or trains, buildings, etc-- the individual components) should be weathered, un-weathered, or some of both?
Weathered. All.
– Do you think they should be weathered before going on the layout, after going on the layout, or just whenever the mood strikes?
As appropriate to the piece. A car or engine should be weathered on the workbench, a road should be weathered in place. A building might have a little of both.
– Does an un-weathered layout stand out to you at all? Would you notice it if everything was pristine and neat?
Definitely. Lack of weathering makes the “suspension of disbelief” harder. A bunch of shiny bright cars makes me think of a toy train set.
On the other hand, over weathering can have a similar effect. For example if the equipment on the layout looked like the equipment in the picture, I would be taken aback by that too.
– Do you think a layout (and/or trains, buildings, etc-- the individual components) should be weathered, un-weathered, or some of both?
I would suggest striking the happy medium. If you are going to whether then the everthing should be weathered to some degree. Seeing weathered cars and cement streets in a pristine condition doesn’t cut it. Unless done right I’d rather see it unweathered.
– Do you think they should be weathered before going on the layout, after going on the layout, or just whenever the mood strikes?
This should be up to the individual modler. I had a neighbor who had a tree service plant very large trees in his yard. I pointed out to him that if he planted saplings they would take root and soon catch up with the larger trees. He had a simple but factual reply. “At my age I don’t have the time to wait” So I’m putting my structures on the layout now and after I get most of the layout developed I’ll go back then and do some weathering
– Does an un-weathered layout stand out to you at all? Would you notice it if everything was pristine and neat?
I would notice it but it wouldn’t be a detraction to me. Better that way than a poorly weathered one.
Weathering is often needed to make a model appear realistic. For example, old junked vehicles in a scrap yard should not look like they are in the show room of an auto dealer.
Normally, it is easier to weather the models on the workbench prior to placing them on the layout.
A layout without weathering does not usually look realistic.
Any object stored or moved outside is subjected to weathering. The effects of rain, grime and dust show up pretty quickly, albeit in a very subtle way.
Weathering for me separates “the boys from men” in our hobby. It is a must to catch that extra bit of realism we all go for.
BUT
Weathering can easily be overdone. Not all locos and cars look rusty and decrepit, not all buildings are ramshackle buildings. Finding that “right” amount of weathering to get that used, but not abused look is a form of art.
I model present day JR (Japanese Railways). JR keeps there locos and cars in clean and pristine condition. The whole country has that freshly rinsed down look (sadly not in some areas of that great country at the moment), so weathering can only be very, very subtle.
Weather or whether to weather? Pun? Well, weather is outside,Rain,Snow,Wind,Cold,Hot etc. A new Locomotive or Freight is clean and shiny at least one day on the railroad.After 1 day of service Natural weathering occurs, just like a new automobile, dust or dirt from roads show up,top and bottom, and then Rain! which turns all of the dirt and dust to mud or grime. After just 1 day of use you have weathering, Car or Train. I am trying to compare our Car(Auto) to a Train to represent the most minimal of Natural weathering,Now imagine a Freight car in transit on track and ballast from yard to yard and to customer. Depending on the Freight car and Customer this is when the Un-Natural weathering starts.Each car for each service will be weathered, just by the Shipper or Shipment. The Sun is the next problem. Photodegradation is our worst enemy. The Sun will attack all surfaces,some worse than others. Bleaching or fading of objects outside is un-avoidable. Many Locomotives and Frieght cars are weathered this way. Whether to Weather? I say yes! And yes, even that shiny Fresh Cherry Vega.
I forgot to say that something that is often overlooked is the “distance and scale” issue…
Looking at a HO model at a normal and comfortable viewing distance, let´s say about 2 feet, then it is comparable to viewing the original at a distance of 174 feet.
At that distance there is some thing that has to give in the perception of the object, due to particles in the air etc. etc. The first to go is shine, so even a gloss surface looks somewhat less gloss at a distance.
The second thing is color intensity, all colors looses intensity with distance. One way to achieve that effect is what master modeller Dave Platt started doing many years ago: mixing a little bit of grey paint in the clearcoat.
And what is most important of all; NEVER USE PURE BLACK! ANYWHERE![swg]
Hmmmm…I could easily fill five pages with observations, opinions and advice regarding this subject while still leaving a lot of facets unaddressed! However, for the sake of brevity, instead I’ll simply offer my overview and a few opinions.
The concept of model railroading from its inception has been to recreate, as best the hobbyist can, the real world in miniature. If one purports to be any sort of model railroader they need to be weathering all aspects of their equipment and layout to reflect what a real person of the period being modeled and at the location depicted, would have actually seen.
That said, I would note that all too often today some hobbyists tend to go overboard with their weathering. This is usually as a result of not researching what was reality AND because of some few drastically over-weathered, yet highly popular, layouts that have dominated the pages of the hobby press over the years. In many respects that sort of “caricature-style” modeling has done more unintended harm than good, because it hasn’t been recognize by its fans as simply a “style” of modeling and never meant as a reflection of any reality.
So, I would opine that all items on a layout should show some degree of weathering and age. However, the hobbyist needs always to do this with care so as not to let himself go overboard. A few structures can show obvious dilapidation, but it should never be the layout’s norm…especially when modeling the Depression Era. And unless you are modeling say the 1950’s and a railroad that was runni
Looks like you got yourself a pic of Steamtown there.
–I am funny about weathering. I will weather buildings and structures, but NOT locos or RR cars. I like to think my RR keeps it’s equipment clean and in pristine condition. I also don’t want to “ruin” any equipment. I can always redo a building but RR car or loco…I’d have to start all over again trying to get the original livery and markings right again. I like the way they come from the factory. SO I vote for “some of both”. I DO believe that some dust is “natural weathering” as there is dust and dirt on about everything exposed to the weather in the real world. It just may not be to “scale”! [:-^]
–I will weather the building when I put the kit together and paint it before it goes on the layout. If it sits on the layout unweathered it’s because I’ m “testing” it there, or just haven’t gotten to it yet {in the case of already constructed buildings}.
–I admire ANY layout for it’s creativity, not for whether it is weathered or not. Makes no difference to me and one does not stand out more than the other to me. What I WIL notice in man
1,Yes , I believe everything should be weathered or at least given a coat of matte or flat finish to kill the shine. Weathering is subjective and usually over done, just like nail holes in clap board siding, wood grain or mortar lines, but it’s up to each modeler to do as they please.
2, It depends on the piece, a building being put down permanently would be easier to weather first,.you may want to run that new car or loco a while, but should eventually see some.
3,Yes and yes, but if that’s what the modeler wants, who am I to tell him it’s wrong, I may not like it, but it’s not mine. Different strokes…
Do you think a layout (and/or trains, buildings, etc-- the individual components) should be weathered, un-weathered, or some of both?
Some of both…Freight cars should be dirty with some rust,rust buckets should be limited to (my thought) 1 in 15 and I base this on trackside observation.Some cars should appear as newly painted-maybe 1-40?
Building should be lightly weathered with faded paint,weathered wood and sun bleach brick but,don’t get carried away.
Do you think they should be weathered before going on the layout, after going on the layout, or just whenever the mood strikes?
For me place’ em on the layout and weather whenever the mood strikes.
Does an un-weathered layout stand out to you at all? Would you notice it if everything was pristine and neat?
Tough question with several answers.
For me it doesn’t matter since I enjoy the work of others.
Now for believability I believe weathering should reflect real life and not fantasy and this is the area where a lot of "“great oooh and Ahhhh” layouts fall short while some overall so/so layouts may shine.
