Photo Question & "Rails"

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Folks,

I’ve been kicking around a couple thoughts lately regarding pictures of rail employees. I’ve managed to get a couple of pictures of workers doing their jobs, day in/day out kind of stuff…but I’m hesitant to post them anywhere for fear that the picture will somehow get them in trouble for doing something wrong or that a guy (or gal) may not want their picture posted. I can’t speak to them about the picture unless I trespass (big no-no) and yet I see other folks posting pictures of similar bent.

Any thoughts?

2

Dan,

Having met you once, I feel confident that you have the good sense as to where the line is that should not be crossed.

However, consider that if they are doing something so bad that posting a photo would get them disciplined, then perhaps the persons should not have been doing the activity in the first place. And if your posting of a questionable photo leads to corrective action that may someday save someone’s life, then maybe a posting might be appropriate. But remember: the person you are photographing probably has a family to support; would you want to be the one that ruins that person’s life? Would you want somebody to do that for you? Have some sympathy for the person being photographed.

Other than sleeping (of which I would never post a photo, due to the fact that railroaders are chronically sleep-deprived, and thus need to nap whenever they get an opportunity), my suggestion is to use yourself as an example–would you want someone to post a photo of you doing whatever it is you are concerned about?

For example, if you grab a photo of an employee picking his nose or doing some other manditory bodily function, it would be in very poor taste to do anything other than delete the photo. But if you catch a traincrew blocking a crossing while they run into a store to buy groceries, that to me would be fair game to post.

3

I would say that if they see your camera and they wave to you anyway, there should be no problem.

Some people who are reading this may have taken pictures of me at work in my tower. When I was still employed, that might have gotten everybody into trouble. But they can’t fire me now, and I doubt that they’d come after you to arrest you for trespassing at this point. But other than the fact that you can’t fix ugly, there was nothing offensive in my pictures.

4

Thanks for the replies Jim & Carl.

Jim-
I wasn’t talking about something like relieving themselves or other ‘bodily’ issues…but going about work. Riding moving cars/locos, in between equipment, etc. That kind of stuff. I know (because of the process I started -twice- and some of the people I know) that there are plenty of rules & procedures I don’t know specifics on. The rule you suggest sounds…sound. Thanks for suggesting it in plain English.

I am video taped & have my picture taken fairly frequently at work…so I guess I was seeking input from others who are as well. Do any of you ‘rails’ (present or past) object to having your picture taken?

5

Publically posting, presenting, publishing of pictures of individuals without their consent is lllegal. If they are in a public place, however, on a street or in a crowd, they have no recourse. But if they are in the privacy of their homes or job place, you must get written permission. In this case, railworkers in work locations and situations, they are in private circumstances and thus should not have pictures of them presented to the public as you suggest. Even if they are doing everything right, it is not proper. Likewise, taking pictures inside a train or out of a train window, especially from a privlidged view, is a simple and courteous no-no. Can anybody come into your home or place of work and take pictures of you and then go publish them or post them without your permission. If the answer is no for you, it is no for any you take. If you do allow pictures of you at home to be published, or work in a job where the takeing of pictures is either allowed or part of the job, then, OK. But in the case of a railfan shooting pictures and then publishing or posting, unless there is special persmission set up, the answer is no, don’t do it.

6

I can take a hint…

7

I’m not sure if that answer could be any more wrong.

8

Basics…

Anyone who appears in a public place, or can be viewed from a public place can be photographed.

If you, the photographer use that image for personal use, such as adding it to your own photo album, no issues.

If you publish it on the web in say, Photobucket or Flicker, still no issues.

If you sell the image, or publish/use it for personal gain, then the issue of the person in the photo rights come into play.

If they are visible from a public place, and are engaged in their daily work which takes place in plain view to the general public, your pretty much ok.

Look at it from this point…I have a big bay view window in the front of my house.

If I leave the drapes and blinds open and up, and can been seen from the street, anyone can snap my picture…no, they are not invading my privacy.

On the other hand, if I had the drapes drawn, and the photographer stuck his lens in between the drapes to take the shot, then I have a case against the photographer.

The issue of privacy depends on me…if I wish not to be seen, then it is my responsibility to close the drapes, but by leaving them open, I invite people to look in, thus negating and privacy issues.

Same applies to people who work outdoors.

If they wish to not be seen or photographed, it is their responsibility to erect some form of barrier.

If the people or person in the photograph can not be readily or easily identified, then there is no issue there.

If they can be readily and easily identified, or of you zoom in on their face in a close up, then, before you publish the photo for personal gain, you must secure a release for publication statement from the person.

And, if the person is in a group of say, track workers laying rail, and you take the photo from a public street, it is pretty much your image to do with as you see fit, unless one of the group request you to cease photographing them specifically.

That inst

9

THere is another side to this when it comes to railfanning. If you photograph someone working on the railroad and you were perhaps not quite legal in your location or you do take advantage of the situation and publish or even post the picture, you, yourself, may not be welcome the next time you show up with camera in hand. And neither will anyother railfan be welcomed. In other words, you may get your picture, and get your accolades for a great shot, but you also may not be doing yourself or sthe fraturnity any favors. When in doubt, take the safest course out.

10

Fraternity? There’s a fraternity?

If someone wants to trespass, that is the risk they take. Besides, if they are trespassing, then they (and other railfans) probably weren’t really welcome to begin with.

11

Yup, but you have to go to 2 keggers before they let you in…[:P]

In all seriousness, as Henry points out, if you wear out your welcome, or continue to take photos even if asked not to, regardless of your legal right to do so, the employees will go out of their way to make the photos worthless, or call the gumshoes, in some way manage to hassle you how ever they can.

12

I do mostly MOW photography. Because most personnel would be identifiable there is an unspoken confidentially agreement between us.I don’t identify them, and they don’t call the RR cops if I get a little close. Yeah, I know there is complicity involved, but they enjoy getting the photos to show their grand-kids what they do for a living…

I do not publish the photos because they are for my personal collection with the intent of preserving today’s history for future generations. I will share the photos with the MOW folks I know I can trust. I also have a much younger friend who has agreed to release these pictures to the public domain long after I and the MOW workers are gone.

It pays to be courteous to those you are photographing, and showing them respect.

13

As I often tell folks when they ask for a picture, it’s “in my job description” here on a tourist railroad. And sometimes I don’t even know my picture has been taken. I know there’s at least one picture of me from the back on the web.

Since we run under rules (NORAC), there is always the possibility that someone’s photo will catch us in what appears to be a rules violation, whether it is or not. And I think that is probably the fear the OP has.